Direct examination by Delphin Delmas
Q.—"While you were at the Cafe Martin did you see Stanford 'White?"
Q.—"At what time did you see him?"
A.—“I don't know; it was some time after we arrived.”
Q.—"Where did you first see him?"
in at the
Q.— “How long did you see him?"
"I don't know. He passed through and went on to the balcony."
Q.—"While he was on the balcony could you see him?"
Q.— “Did you see him leave?"
“Yes. I saw him come in from the balcony and go out of the
Q.—"While you were in the Cafe Martin, did you call for a pencil?"
A.—"I think from Mr. McCaleb. He said he did not have one."Q.—"Did you ask again for a pencil?"
A.—"Yes, I got one from some one, I don't remember whom."
Q.— “Did you write a note?"
A.—"A slip of paper. I think Mr. McCaleb gave it to me."
Q.—"What did you do with it?
A.—"I passed it to Mr. Thaw."
Q.—"What did Mr. Thaw do?"
A.— “He said to me: 'Are you all right?' I said: ‘Yes.'"
Q.—"What was your condition as to being disturbed or affected?"[Mr. Jerome's objection to the question was sustained.]
Q.—"Was there anything unusual in your manner that was visible to others?"[Objection was sustained.]
Q.—"After this how long did you remain?"
A.— “Only a short time."
Q.—"Mrs. Thaw, have you that slip of paper now?"
A.—"I have not."
Q.—"Have you seen it since?"
A.—"No..."Q.— “After you left the restaurant, you went to Madison Square Roof garden?"
Q.—"About what time was it?"
A.— “About the middle of the first act."Q.—"How long did he remain at your side?"
A.—"About half an hour."
Q.— “What was his manner then?"
A.—"It seemed to be the same as ever."
Q.—"Did you talk about anything special then?"
A.—"No, just general."
Q.—"Who suggested going away from the garden?"
Q.—"The play wasn't interesting to you?"
A.—"Not a bit," said the witness.
Q.— “How did you start when you went out?"
A.—"I think that Mr. McCaleb and I were in the lead and Mr. Thaw and Mr. Beale followed."
Q.—"How far had you gone when something happened ?"
A.—"Almost to the elevator. I had turned around to speak to Mr. Thaw."
Q.—"How far were you from Mr. White then?"
A.— “About as far as the end of the jury box."
Q.—" You saw Mr. White sitting there?"
Q.—"Did you see Mr. Thaw then?"
A.—"Not until a minute or so afterward, He was directly in front of Mr. White, standing with his arm up in the air."
Q.—"Did you hear shots fired?"
A.—"Yes, immediately after I saw Mr. White I heard the shots." .
Q.— “How many shots?"
A.— “Three shots."
Q.—"What did you say?"
A.—"I said to Mr. McCaleb: 'I think he has shot him.'"
Q.—"Did Mr. Thaw come over to where you were?"
A.— “Yes, I asked him what he had done. He leaned over and kissed me and said: 'I have probably saved your life.' "
Q.—"What happened then?"
Q.— “You were taken from there?"
A.—"Yes, I think with Mr. McCaleb and Mr. Beale."
Q.—"You left and did not return?"
A.— “Yes. "
Q.— “You said that you are the wife of the defendant? "
Q.— “When were you married?"
A.—"On April 4, 1905."
Q.—"Who were present?"
A.—"I think Josiah Thaw, Mr. Thaw's brother," the witness went on, after a moment.
Q.—"When had Mr. Thaw proposed for the first time?"
June, 1903, in
Q.—"At the time did you refuse him?"
Q.—"Did you state in explaining your refusal of his proposal that it had something to do with Stanford White?"
Q.—"State what happened."
A.—"Mr. Thaw told me that he loved me and wanted to marry me. I stared at him for a moment and then he said, 'Don't you care for me?' ' and I said that I did. Then he asked me what was the matter. I said 'nothing. ' 'Why won't you marry me?' he said. He put his hands on my shoulder and asked, "Is it because of Stanford White?' and I said, 'yes.' Then he told me he would never love anyone else or marry anyone else. I started to cry. He said he wanted me to tell him the whole thing. Then I began to tell him how I first met Stanford White."
[Evelyn collapses. She murmurs:]
"I can't go on! I can't! I can't!"[The court windows are opened, an alienist applies restoratives, and in a few minutes Evelyn continues with her testimony:]
kind enough to remember you are to omit in
relating the narrative of what you told Mr. Thaw, the name of any other
that of Mr. White. Now continue."
A.—"A young lady asked my mother several times to let me go out with her to lunch. She came again and again to me before I sent her to my mother, finally, and she said, 'All right.' My mother finally consented....On the day I was to go my- mother dressed me and I went with Miss --, the other young lady, in a hansom, hoping we would go to the ballroom, because I wanted to see it. But we went straight down to Broadway, through
Q.—'"Did you relate all that to Mr. Thaw?"
A.—"Yes, he told me to tell him everything."
Q.—"By the way, what was the date of that event?"
A.—"As nearly as I can remember, it was in August, 1901."
Q.—"Well, now I want you to tell of your first meeting with Stanford White just as you told it to Mr. Thaw on that day."
A.—[Evelyn testified that a chorus girl, Edna Goodrich, asked her to a luncheon party where she would meet White. She and Edna took a cab and went to the studio on
“We went upstairs, and there I met a man who was introduced to me as Stanford White. I thought him an ugly man. There was a table already set for four. Another gentleman came later. I remember Mr. White teased me about my hair, which I wore down my back, and my short skirt, which reached to my shoe tops. After supper we went up two flights of stairs more, and in the room was a large red: velvet swing. Mr. White put me in the swing and swung me very hard. Then he swung very hard one foot crashed through a large Japanese umbrella which hung from the ceiling."
Q.—....“Did you see Mr. White again?"
A.—"Yes, he came to see my mother, told her that I would be all right in
you see there?"
a lot of expensive gowns
into the dressing-room to
put on the dress.
Q.—"'What did he say afterward?"
A.—"He made me
swear that I would never tell
my mother about it. He said there was no use in talking and the
in this world was not to get found out. He said the girls in the
foolish to talk. He laughed afterward. He said it
was all right-that there was
'nothing so nice as young girls and nothing so loathsome as fat ones.
never get fat.'"
Recalled: Direct Examination
me how I came to speak to
Stanford White after my return from
Mr. White telephoned me that he was
going to send a carriage for me and I was to come to Broadway
"When I got
to Mr. Hummel's office Mr.
White went away. Mr. Hummel's office walls were covered with
actresses, with writing on them. He asked me how I came to go to
"I told him all I could remember. He said I was a minor and that Thaw should have been more careful. He said he had a case in his office against Thaw, but the woman in the case was a very bad one and he did not think the case was much good.
he said Thaw was a very bad man, and,
above all things, I must be protected from him. Mr.
White then said that the other man was to get Harry
Thaw out of
me if I went to
“'Nevertheless,’ Hummel said, ‘you are a minor and he should not have taken you away from your mother.’ I said he did not take me away.
said that strong methods must be
resorted to to keep Thaw out of
“Mr. White said I must leave everything in Mr. Hummel’s hands. Then they sent for a stenographer, and the lawyer said I must not interrupt him in what he was about to say. I was very nervous and excited, and I think I began to cry. Then they began to dictate and put in a lot of stuff that I had been carried away by Harry Thaw against my will. I started to interrupt, but the lawyer put up his hands and stopped me.
“They put in that I had been taken away from my mother and a lot of stuff that was not true—that I had been treated badly by Mr. Thaw. Then they sent the man out of the room.
“Several days later Mr. Hummel called me up and asked if I had any letters from Mr. Thaw.
“I said I did, but I could not see what that had to do with it. Mr. White also called up and said if I was not willing to help in every way they could not protect me from Mr. Thaw. He said I must do just what Mr. Hummel said. So I made up the letters up in a bundle and took them down to Mr. Hummel’s office. He said he did not want to read them, and did not care what they contained. He asked, however, if they were love letters, and I said ‘yes.’
“He said he just wanted to hold them over Harry K. Thaw’s head. He sealed them up in a big envelope so I could see, he said, that he did not care anything about them.
“Then he asked me why I did not sue Harry Thaw for breach of promise. I said that was absurd, for if there had been any breach of promise it was on my part. He said that did not matter.
“Mr. Hummel said a breach of promise suit would be a fine advertisement for me. I told him I did not care for that kind of advertising. He said lots of actresses had done the same thing and he had won lots of cases for them. He told me an English duke had once been sued by an actress for breach or promise. He declared he could easily win a suit for me. I said I did not want to sue anybody.
“This made Mr. Hummel very mad and angry and he told me I was foolish."
did you tell Mr. Thaw?"
was very much agitated. He said
Hummel was a blackmailer and he said, I think, that there was something
the air and he impressed me that he was going to see Mr. Longfellow,
testified that she visited her own
lawyer and relatedg her experiences with Hummel. Her lawyer, she said,
greatly incensed at what she told him of her experiences in Hummel's
too, told me that Hummel was
a shyster. Mr. Thaw told me that I had no business
to speak again with Stanford White. He accused me of having been
Mr. White since I came back from
tell of another incident?"
called Mr. White up on the telephone
after I had talked to Mr. Thaw, and I demanded of Mr. White that he put
paper in the fire. He said he did not have it—but that it was in Mr.
office. I said: ' Very well,' and told him I was going down to Mr.
office immediately. He told me to not talk about the matter over the
and I said I did not care who heard me. Then White
said he would meet me on the corner
and I met him.
"When I met him we went down to Mr. Hummel's office. He showed me the paper and showed me my signature and asked if it was mine, and I said it was. Then they put the paper in a big jardinière and burned it. Afterward I told Mr. Thaw all about it and also saw Mr. Longfellow and told him."
Mr. Thaw, treat you from that
time until he proposed marriage?"
me very nicely; carried
me up and down stairs when I was sick and brought me flowers and took
because of my reputation. I did
not want to separate him from his family. I knew it would be a good
me to marry him, but it would not be for him. It was because I loved
him that I
would not marry. If I did not love him so much I might have been
Q.—"You were given to believe that his family would receive you as his wife?"
Q.—"Did you tell your husband of the efforts of Stanford White to renew your friendship?"
the first occurrence you told
your husband about?"
I was driving on.
tell your husband?"
A.—"I did, and
he said it was not right for
me to see him and made me promise that if I ever met White again I
him about it."
you see Mr. White again?"
A.—"It was on "
A.—Oh, he was
always very excited whenever I
told him of my meetings with White. He bit his nails and looked
ever tell Mr. Thaw how yon came
to be sent to school at Pompton, N. J., and if so, relate it to the
also wherein the name of Jack Barrymore entered into the discussion,
what your relations to Barrymore were."
A.—"I met Mr.
Barrymore when I was with the Wild
Rose' company at the Knickerbocker theater. Mr. White gave a dinner to
lot of friends. I was asked to attend and I went there and met his
the party. Mr. Barrymore was there...."
answered him, and said, 'I don't know.'
asked me if I would marry
Barrymore and said, 'If kids like you get married, what would you have
"Every day after that when I would meet my mother she would ask me if I intended 'to marry that little pup Barrymore,' saying Mr. White was afraid I would.
then came to see me and said I
would be very foolish to marry Mr. Barrymore; we would have nothing to
would probably quarrel and get a divorce. He also said Mr. Barrymore
little bit crazy, that his father was in an asylum, and he thought the
family was touched. He was certain Mr. Barrymore would be crazy in a
and for that reason said I ought not to marry him.
Barrymore asked me a second time if I
would marry him, and again I said, 'I don't know,' and laughed. The
the whole matter was that Mr. White came and said I ought to be sent to
and I was."
have already testified, Mrs. Thaw,
that you are familiar with the handwriting of Stanford White," said the
attorney. "I now hand you a paper and ask if from beginning to end it
in the handwriting of Mr. White?"
is his handwriting."
have you known May
has Mr. Thaw known her?"
Q.—"Did you in
May, 1906, relate to Mr. Thaw
a conversation you had with May McKenzie especially with reference to
said to you regarding Stanford White?”
McKenzie told me Stanford White had been to see her and that she had
told him that Harry
and I were getting along finely together. She said she thought it was
the way we loved each other.
Thaw say anything when you told him
A.—"He said he
had already heard it from Miss
his condition when you told him?"
A.—"The way he
always was when on the
subject of Stanford White."
A.—" Very excited and nervous."
Q.—" You had a
second operation in 1905, did
the arrangements for it and
paid the cost?"
was the bill?"
about $3,000. The operation
itself was $1,000."
not in my presence."
Thaw at the time of your marriage
and subsequent thereto talk very much about the incident in your life
always talked about it. He would waken me
often at night,
sobbing. And then he would constantly
ask me questions about the details of this terrible thing.”
visit May McKenzie at her apartments
was ill and sent me a letter to come
to see her.”
were there did Stanford White come
tell Mr. Thaw of anything that then
A.—“Yes. Stanford White spoke to me several times and I always answered ‘yes’ or ‘no.’ He then came over and started to straighten a bow on my hair. My hair was short, having been cut off at the time of first operation. The Stanford White tried to put his arms around me, and wanted me to sit beside him on the bed. I told him to let me alone....I told him it would do no good,that White had many influential friends and that he could stop it. I told him that lots of people would not believe the things about White on account of his personality."
and Mr. Thaw discuss the fate of
the 'pie girl?"
It was in
Mr. Thaw next talk to you about
time was in
Q.—"Did you and Mr. Thaw often speak of
was a constant conversation.
I could not possibly tell you every place and every time we discussed
told me something ought to be done about the girls. I told him I could
not do anything.
He then said I could help him. I tried to get his mind on other things
he would say I was trying to get out of it. He said White ought to be
penitentiary; that he got worse and worse all the time and something
had to be done."
Cross-examination by William T.
Q.—....“Was there any
exposure of the person or did you wear the so-called artistie
A.—“I would not
say that,” replied the witness. “I posed
in a Greek dress and a Turkish costume.”
A.—“I never did—I
always posed with clothes on. Do you mean without anything on
her? I have posed in low-neck, but
never, never like that.”
“If the district attorney wants to the mother’s testimony in he should produce her on the stand.”
Jerome—“I’d like to, but you know that it is impossible. You know where she is.”
[The question regarding Evelyn becoming unruly was allowed to stand.]
Q.—“Is it not
true that that married man was James A. Garland, and that he was
divorce, and that you and your mother frequently quarreled about him”
Q.—“Is it not
true that you went alone with him on the yacht?”
A.—“Mamma and I,
Q.—“Ever had any
casts made in the nude?”
Q.—“Did you not
in the spring of 1901 have such a cast made?”
Q.—“Do you know
Mr. Wells, sculptor?”
Q.—“Ever heard of
Q.—“How long did
Q.—“When did you
acquaintance with him cease?”
A.—“When I met
Q.—“Isn’t it true
that Mr. Garland became very annoying when you lived at a certain
recollection is clear that you posed in draperies the day before the
Q.—“Was there any
exposure of the person?”
Q.—“Was there any
exposure of the person”
photographs were low-necked.”
A.—“Yes, sir.”Q.—“Before the time you left
A.—“Not until my
talk with Mr. Thaw.”
you didn’t believe it wrong; you did not think it improper?”
particulary. I knew people said it was
Q.—“Did you think
it very indelicate and vulgar?”
A.—“That is all.”
Q.—“That it was
only bad taste?”
didn’t think it was wrong?”
fully realize it until I went to
thought it was wrong?”
belong to any religious organization?”
Q.—“You went to
church and Sunday school in
A.—“In a way."
Q.—“Had you come
to full understanding of the infamous character of White’s act?”
so much as I have now.”
Q.—“Yet it was
this that induced your renunciation of Thaw’s great love?”
refuse Thaw solely because of the occurrence with White?”
have been found out.”
Q.—“Who told you
you had been caught?”
Q.—“So it was not
because of the occurrence, but because you had been found out?”
A.—“It was both
together. I had an instinct about
it. When Mr. Thaw proposed it was the
first proposal I ever had and it all struck me very seriously. It all came together.”
Q.—“You felt the
most heinous wrong had been done?”
A.—“I didn’t know
anything about it at the time. All I
remember is what I felt like when I woke up.
I remember that distinctly. I
didn’t understand what had taken place.”
every maidenly instinct in you, didn’t it?”
A.—“It did, and
that is why I quarreled with Stanford White.”
Q.—“You were very
bitter against White when you told Thaw weren’t you?”
Q.—“When you felt
you were giving up Thaw’s love you didn’t fell bitter against White?”
intensely. Not until Mr. Thaw made me
continue to have a feeling of enmity against White?”
say enmity—it was hostility against him for this one thing and
improper and indecent?”
A.—“I don’t know
what you would call them.”
did you tell your mother of you experience with White?”
Q.—“How did you
know Stanford White’s friends knew of your relations with Stanford
A.—“One of them
saw me with him at the East Twenty-second studio.”
Q.—“Was there any
continued to maintain relations with Stanford White?”
A.—“Yes, for a
didn’t think to tell us on your direct examination?”
Q.—“Can you fix
dates as to these subsequent events?”
Q.—“How did you
know this man knew of your relations with White?”
A.—“He saw me one
day with Mr. White in one of his studios.”
Q.—“Were you and
Mr. White alone?”
Q.—““How long did
you continue to visit Mr. White?"
visits did you make?”
A.—“I do not
Q.—“And on these
occasions were you two alone?”
partake of refreshments there?”
Q.—“Did you have
too much wine?”
Q.—“What time of
the day did these incidents occur?”
Q.—“Why did you
not tell your mother all about your visits?”
rather have died than to tell her.”