EXCERPTS FROM THE TESTIMONY OF DALLAS RAMSEY

Direct examination by Hon. Samuel S. Liebowitz

Q     What is your first name?

A     Dallas Ramsey

Q     Now about two years ago this month -- you read the papers don't you?

A     Yes sir

Q     Do you remember reading the papers in Chattanooga about some trouble between some colored boys and white girls down around Scottsboro?

A     Yes sir.

Q     On that day you read about that in the afternoon papers or late evening papers of Chattanooga were you in the railroad yards of Chattanooga that morning?

A     I was living right at the railroad, yes sir.

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Q     A short distance away from your home is that were the tank is on the railroad tracks in Chattanooga?

A     Yes sir.

Q     To the left of that is the tank, where the railroad tank is on the railroad?

A     Yes sir.

Q     This whole are in here (indicating) described by a light line here, what is that whole area know as?

A     Called Hobo Jungle.

Q     In the Hoboes Jungle where you have a cross with the letter  L" who lives there, who lived there two years ago?

A     They called him Lewis.

Q     In a little shack in that Hobo Jungle?

A     Yes sir.

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Q     Did you see some girls on that morning in a place called the jungle you have indicated on that map, some white girls?

A     Yes sir.

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Q: What time did you see them in the jungles?

A: Something like six o'clock in the morning.

COURT:     Did you say you heard a something about that trouble on the train near Scottsboro?

A     I read about it.

COURT:     What time was that?

Q     Was that the same day or next day, was it the same morning that you read about it that night in the Chattanooga papers?

A     I seen them there that morning--

GENERAL KNIGHT:    We object.

A     I seen two girls there that morning, the next day that was the time I read about it or heard about it.

Q    You read about it the next day in the paper that something had happened the afternoon before?

A    Yes sir.

Q    The day or afternoon of the account referred to you say you saw those girls about six o'clock in the morning in the jungles?

A     Yes sir.

COURT:     How many girls did you see

A     Two

MR. LEIBOWITZ:    Will you bring Victoria Price in.

GENERAL KNIGHT:    We object, let him describe the girls.

COURT:    Let her come in.

GENERAL KNIGHT:    I don't mind her coming in, but I do think the jury should be able to test his accuracy, you see my cross examination on this is foreclosed--

MR. LEIBOWITZ:    Your Honor please we will not only prove it by this witness, but will prove it by white witnesses.

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Q     Is this the girl you saw?

GENERAL KNIGHT:     We object.

COURT:     Overrule the objection.

A    She seems like the same girl -- it seems like she is a little heavier now that what she was then.

Q    It is the same girl?

A    Yes sir.

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Q     After you arrived at Lewis' house where did you go with Lewis?

GENERAL KNIGHT:     We object to that.

COURT:    Overrule that objection.

A     We left his house and went down to his hog pen.

Q     How far away from the house was the hog pen?

A     Well about two hundred yards

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Q     After you saw the sick hog where did you go?

A     I left there then and come up on the Central of Georgia trestle.

Q     Did you leave with Lewis?

A     Yes sir.

Q     Which way did you go with you left with Lewis?

A     There is a path from the sick hog up on the Central Georgia trestle.

Q     Please tell us what court or direction you went when you come up on the trestle?

A     We were already down in the jungles.

Q     Did you see anybody in the jungle?

A     We seen two girls.

Q     That was on of the girls you have identified here a little while ago?

A     Yes sir.

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Q     Did this girl you have identified (for the record Victoria Price) say to you, when does the train for Huntsville leave?

A     Yes sir.

Q     Or words to that effect?

 A     Yes sir.

Q     Did you reply to that or did Lewis reply?

A     I replied.

Q     Tell these gentlemen what you said to her

A     I said it leaves somewhere around nine o'clock

Q     What did she say then?

A     She said w came up here hunting a job, and I told her, I said about a month ago I says I left by job over there at the Hosiery Mill, at the Champion Hosiery Mill, I bought a dray and I had to quit, and they are hiring knitters over there, and I says they practically put on some every day and it might be you could get a job over there, and she said I have been all around the town and couldn't find no job.

Q     That as at six o'clock in the morning?

A     Yes sir

Q     Then what else was said?

A     I told her, well--

Q     Did she say to you her old man had just left her and gone hunting for food?

A     Yes sir.

Q     Did you ask her how she was going to get back to Huntsville and did she say she was going to hobo on a freight?

A     Yes sir, she said she was going to hobo back.

Q     Then did you say then and there, it is a pretty hard way for a woman to travel?

A     Yes sir

Q     Then what happened?

A     She said we haven't got any money, and said my old man has gone uptown to look for some food.

Q     Was there any more conversation between you and these girls?

A     That was practically all believe of that conversation we had, and I then left and went on upon the railroad

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Q     That is here you saw them later in the morning?

A     Yes sir.

Q     Were they with somebody at that time?

A     Yes sir.

Q     Did you see a man with them?

A     Yes sir.

Q     Tell us about that?

A     I seen a gentlemen with them at that time.

Q     White man?

A     White man.

Q     Was he with them at the crossing?

A     Yes sir.

Q     What sort of white man was he, was he a dark man, dark haired?

COURT:     Describe him?

Q     As to the color of his hair, if you can remember.

A     I don't know as I could, I really never noticed about his hair.

Q     Tell us what you observed there when you saw these girls at the crossing of the two railroads, what happened?

A     When the train run I seen them all catch the train there.

COURT:     How many were there?

A    How many girls?

COURT:     Yes?

A     Well I only seen two girls.

COURT:     How many men?

A     Oh, I seen a crowd of boys.

Q     White and colored?

A     Yes sir.

COURT:     This man with the girls what became of him?

A    He catched the train too.

From the Cross Examination by Attorney General Knight

Q     Do you know Mr. Chamlee?

A     Yes sir.

Q     How long have you known him?

A     Oh, I have been knowing Mr. Chamlee for the last I reckon twelve or fifteen years.

Q     Who was the first on one talked to about this case?

A     Well they haven't any one talked to me about the case, no more than until you might say Mr. Chamlee asked me sometime ago.

Q     What did he say?

A     He asked me did I see these girls, and I told him, yes, I see them.

Q     You don't know how he knew you saw them?

A     No sir, I don't know.

Q     But when he asked you told him you did see them?

A     Yes sir.

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Q     Mr Chamlee is the first man that asked you did you see them, is that true?

A     He wasn't the first man, but he was the first man that was involved in the case that asked me anything, other people asked me about it.

Q     How did they happen to ask you about it?

MR. LEIBOWITZ:    I object

COURT:     Overrule that objection.

A     Mr. Chamlee I think probably had a talk with Lewis; he came from Lewis' house over to my house.
 

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Q      When did you first read about it

A      The following morning after that

Q      You are sure that was the first time you read about it?

A      Yes sir.

Q      You are sure you read about it the next morning?

A      Yes sir.

Q      What paper did you read it in

A      Chattanooga Times

Q      Did you tell anybody you had seen these girls?

A      Yes sir, told everybody around there I seen them and had talked with them over there.

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