EXCERPTS FROM THE TESTIMONY OF HAYWOOD PATERSON


From the Direct Examination of Samuel Liebowitz:

Q    Where were you sitting, show the jury, without me asking you another question just tell these men exactly what happened in your own way from the time you got on that car up until the time you were arrested?

A    When I got on at Chattanooga, Tennessee I boarded an oil car; Roy Wright he got on the next box car and crawled over to the oil tank.

Q    Yes?

A    Eugene Williams he got on the oil tank; me and Eugene Williams set here on this seat (indicating) and Andy Wright and Roy Wright set up there (indicating).

Q    Yes.

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A     Some white boys come walking along the side of the car, transferring from car to car, come along and stepped on my hand, and I asked the boy the next time he wanted to pass let me know and I would get out of his way; the boy spoke up and asked me what was my part about it if he knocked me off; I spoke up and told him if he did it again I would show him my part about it.

COURT:  Go on.

A    The boys they walked on back over the top going up toward the gondola car.

Q    After a while did some other negro boys come along there to the oil tank?

A    After the white boys went back to the gondola car they come up; before the colored boys came up to where we were--

Q    What happened?

A    The white boys swung on the side of the car and picked up rocks and threw them at us boys and said that was going to put us off.

Q    Was there some bad language between the two, whites and blacks?

A    Yes sir.

Q    Curse words and things of that kind?

A    Yes sir.

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Q    How many white boys was there at the beginning?

A    Five in the gondola.

Q    Did you also fight in the car?

A    Yes sir.

Q    Did you have any weapon, or have any gun in your hand?

A    No, sir.

Q    There was a fellow with a gun wasn't there?

A    Yes sir.

Q    Did you know that fellow?

A    What happened to that fellow before you reached Paint Rock?

Q    He got off between Scottsboro and Stevenson.
 

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Q    What happened to those two?

A    One of them crawled up on the box car and run up toward the engine, and the other boy was standing down on the side, the one called Gilley, he crawled down on the side of the car, and one of the boys was trying to push him loose, and I walked up to the boy and told him not to push the boy off the train was going too fast, I was afraid the boy would get killed.

Q    The what did you do?

A    I pulled the boy back in the car, and Andy Wright give me a lift and helped to put the boy back and after we put the boy back he crawled in the next car, the fifth chert car.
 

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Q    You were sitting on the oil car when the officers stopped you at Paint Rock?

A    Yes sir.

Q    The other three boys, Andy Wright, Eugene Williams and Roy Wright were with you?

A    Yes sir.

Q    Did you have on a pair of overalls?

A    No sir, I had on a pair of brown pants.

Q    What kind of material, dark brown?

A    Dark brown and yellow stripes in them.

Q    Was it the kind of brown that white would show clearly on?

A    Yes sir.

Q    Any pair of pants taken off you by any official?

A    No sir.

Q    Were you searched?

A    Yes sir.

Q    You were in the custody of the authorities from the time they took you off at Paint Rock?

A    Yes sir.
 

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Q    Did you see and official or anybody go to any boy and say here, look at the evidence on that boy's pants?

A    No sir.

Q    Did you see anybody take any pants or overalls off any other boys?

A    No sir.

Q    Haywood Patterson did you rape this girl?

A    No sir.

Q    Did you have anything to do with a white girl?

A    I didn't see any girls on the train.

Q    Did you rape any white girl?

A    No sir.

Q    You are a colored boy, would you dare rape a white girl?

A    Yes sir.

Q    Would you dare rape any white woman, did you ever try to rape any white woman?

A    No sir.

COURT:    He asked you would you dare to rape a white woman?

A    No sir.

Q    Do you understand the word dare?

A    Yes sir.
 

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Q    Did you see any women on that train?

A    No sir, I didn't.

Q    Did you see any girls until you got to Paint Rock?

A    Yes sir, I seen some at Paint Rock.

Q    Did you see any girls before you got to Paint Rock?

A    No sir, I didn't see any girls, seen some men.

Q    Did you see any girls from the time you left Chattanooga up until the time you got to Paint Rock?

A    No, sir.

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From the Cross examination by Attorney General Knight

Q    I will ask you if you haven't stood in Kilby Prison and mocked those girls crying while you were raping them?

A    No sir, I haven't mocked no girl crying, how could I mock them-how could a man rape a girl with a man hanging on the side when we taken him and put him back and saved his life.

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A    I haven't raped any girl, I haven't seen any girl.

Q    You didn't do that?
A    No sir, I didn't do any such a thing as that; I pulled this white boy back up on the train and saved his life.

Q    Stop talking except when  you are being talked to?

MR. LEIBOWITZ:  The witness is being tried for his life and I think his answers are perfectly proper.  He stated being a colored man he wouldn't think of doing a think of that kind with a white witness present.

COURT:  Did you say that?

A    Yes sir, I said what the lawyer said.

Q    I will ask you if when you were in Scottsboro--were you tried at Scottsboro?

A    Yes sir, I was framed at Scottsboro.

Q    Framed at Scottsboro?

A    Yes sir.

Q    Who told you to say you were framed?

A    I told myself to say it.

Q    All right--I will ask you whether or not you were asked this question and did you make the following answer:  "Q:  Where did you first see the girls?"  and your answer was, "A:  I seen them after the train left out of Stevenson."

A    It's wrong.

Q    Did you answer that was or not?

A    No sir, I didn't.

Q    Then this is wrong?

A    Yes sir.

Q    Not true?

A    No sir.

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Q    Do you know Clarence Norris?

A    I know him now, know him since I have been in jail.

Q    Did you see Clarence Norris ravish that girl?

A    No sir, I haven't seen any girl.
 

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Q    You got in the fight?

A    Yes sir.

Q    You got down in the gondola car?

A    Yes sir.

Q    And took part in the fight?

MR. LEIBOWITZ:  He said that a thousand times.

Q    I will ask you if you didn't make this answer, if this question wasn't asked you and if you didn't answer this on the former trial at Scottsboro; "Q:  Where was Norris while you were sitting on the box car?", and your answer, "A:  I guess he was down with the other crowd."

A    No sir, I didn't say that.

Q    That is incorrect?

A    No sir, I didn't say that, I didn't say I guess he was down in the other crowd; I think he was in the fight, I ain't for sure about it; if I ain't mistaken I remember seeing
him in the fight.

Q    I am going to ask you again, didn't you see nine Negroes ravish two women on that train?

A    I haven't seen any women on the train, I didn't know any women were on the train.

Q    I will ask you if you didn't answer this was when you were tried at Scottsboro where the following question was asked you: "Q:  Did you see all those other Negroes ravish that girl?"

A    No sir, I haven't seen any girls.

Q    And your answer was; "A:  I seen all of them but three."

A    No sir.

Q:  You didn't testify to that in Scottsboro?

A:  No sir, I didn't.

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MR. LEIBOWITZ:  I have treated his witnesses with much more e courtesy and with much more decency than he is showing this negro on the stand; he is running at him and shouting and pointing his finger at him, trying to embarrass him; he is only an illiterate negro, give him a chance.  I treated your witnesses with the utmost courtesy.

GENERAL KNIGHT:  I am not ashamed with the way I am examining this witness.

MR. LEIBOWITZ:  Don't rush up at him, nothing is going to be gained by that.
 

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Q    How many people were in that gondola car with these girls?

A    I haven't seen any girls.

MR. LEIBOWITZ:  Don't point your finger at him trying to embarrass him.

GENERAL KNIGHT:  I am not studying about embarrassing him, what I want to do--

MR. LEIBOWITZ:  Don't point your finger in his face or your pencil at him.

GENERAL KNIGHT:  I will point anything I want to until the court tells me not to.
 

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Q    When you got in the gondola car where the white boys were, what took place when you got in the gondola car where the white boys were?

A    We started fighting and the boys started fighting us back.

Q    Tell me everything else, what all you remember said and done?

A    I remember only one thing said, one of the boys when we first entered the car, the boy with the gun told them to unload--

Q    What was that?

A    I says, when the boys entered the car the boy told the boys to unload you sons of bitches, then we started fighting and all the boys joined in; we overpowered the boys and some of them jumped off, and one swung down on the side of the car, the one called Gilley and one run up toward the engine and I didn't see him any more.  I got down and helped the other boy back and told them to let the boy up on the car, the train had done speeded up and I was afraid the boy would get killed.

Q    How long did you keep him in the car?

A    I didn't keep him in the car, I put him back and he crawled over in the next gondola.

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Recross examination  by Attorney General Knight

Q    I will ask you if you ever said to Ozie Powell, if you had gone ahead and killed those girls you wouldn't have been in this fix?

A    I haven't seen any girls, I didn't know Ozie Powell until they brought him to the Scottsboro jail.

Q    Didn't you say that in Kilby Prison in the cell block in which you were confined?

A    I wasn't in no cell block--

MR. LEIBOWITZ:  I object.

Q    Did you or did you not?

A    No sir, I didn't.

MR. LEIBOWITZ:  Simply because you ask the question doesn't mean it is true.

GENERAL KNIGHT:  I would not have gone into it if I couldn't prove that by the evidence.

MR. LEIBOWITZ:  I object to all these speeches, and playing up to the gallery.

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