Excerpts from the Testimony of Robert Jordan

December 5, 1984

ROBERT OLIVER JORDAN, a witness called by the plaintiff, having been first duly sworn, testified as follows:



Q.  Mr. Jordan, would you please state for the record, and speaking in as loud and as clear a voice as you possibly can so that every juror hears you, what is your full name?

A.  Robert Oliver Jordan.

Q.  And where do you live, Mr. Jordan?

A.  At 205 East 78th Street, New York City.

Q.  What is your occupation?

A.  I'm in the advertising business.

Q.  And for what length of time have you been in the advertising business field?

A.  Twenty-eight (28) years.

Q.  At the present time with what agency, office or organization are you affiliated in this field?

A.  I'm with an agency known as Sachi and Sachi Compton, Incorporated.

Q.  And what is your position with that company officially?

A.  I'm chairman of the board of that company.  

* * *

Q.  Among the clients serviced by the Compton Agency in 1983, are you familiar with whether or not the agency had anything to do with a company that produced a product called Campari?

A.  Yes, we were the agency for a company called Campari USA.

Q.  For what length of time, prior to the fall of 1983, has the Compton agency been acting as the agents for that particular product?

A.  We started with them in early 1981, March, I believe.

Q.  Would you tell us what you know or knew then about the nature of that product?

A.  Certainly, it's a distilled spirit, widely popular in Europe, which is consumed as a mixed drink.

* * *

Q.  The first of these is called "Geraldine Chapman Talks About Her First Time", and that appears on the back cover of New York magazine.  The second is called "Tony Roberts Talks About His First Time", which appears on the back cover of the New Yorker magazine.  The third of these is called "Elizabeth Ashley Talks About Her First Time".  And the last of these exhibits is entitled "Jill St. John Talks About Her First Time".  Could you tell me, if you will, Mr. Jordan, what some of the other magazines were in which these ads appeared?

A.  Certainly, I could.  It was a lengthy list, but just for example, Life magazine, Cosmopolitan, Playboy, People, Newsweek, Money magazine, the New Yorker, Vogue, Tennis Magazine, and a number of others.

* * *

Q.  Could you, on the basis of work done at your agency, give us some idea of approximately what the total audience or readership was that saw these ads in the various magazines in which they were inserted?

A.  Well, I don't know the exact figure, but I would estimate roughly, over the cumulative length of that campaign, which something about like three (3) years, it had to be in excess of ten million (10,000,000) people.

* * *

Q.  Let me just take, for example, the first of them, Exhibit 8, and read the text to you.

Do you need to have a copy of this before you?

A.  I doubt it, sir.

Q.  All right, taking for example, the text of Exhibit 8A, showing the picture of Geraldine Chaplin -- excuse me, I'll withdraw that.  Let me use the Jill St. John one.  The text reads:

"St. John: My first time was in the Tre Scalini, that adorable sidewalk cafe in Rome.

Interviewer: Oh, really?  Right out in the open?  

St. John: Sure.  You see, I'm basically an outdoorsytype person.

Interviewer: I see.  You must tell me all about it.

"St. John: Well, we were just relaxing after a hard day shooting, just me and the crew.  It happened with the stunt man.

Interviewer: That stunt man? That sounds a bit risky.

St. John: Oh, it wasn't really.  You see, he was Italian and they just seem to know about these things.

Interviewer: Go on.

St. John: He was very romantic.  He leaned close and gently, 'Well,' I said, 'I've never been shy about anything before.' He gave me a charming grin, then ordered a Gingerly for me, that's Campari and ginger-ale and soda, and a Campari and soda for himself.

Interviewer: A little mix of Italian and American.  How interesting.  How was it?

St. John: Very satisfying, after that long, hot day.  See, it was deliciously light and so refreshing, a very special experience.

Interviewer: Did you ever have it again?

St. John: Of course, many times.  It's not the kind of thing you try once and then you forget about it.  I've gone out with some outstanding men and they all know one or two new ways to enjoy it.  I prefer the Exotic, that's Campari with grapefruit juice. 

Interviewer: Well, you seem to have come a long way since your first time.

"St. John: What can I say.  It's hard to resist something when it just keeps getting better and better."

Now, were you familiar with the preparation of the text of that ad?

A.  In general terms, sir, yes.

Q.  What was the general objective in the preparation of this interview format for these kinds of ads?

A.  All right, let me start with the objective of the advertisement now.  First of all, Campari was a very popular product, really, throughout western Europe.  It really was not much of a factor in the beverage business in the United States and had not been tried by very many people.  It has a rather unique bitter flavor, and as a consequence it is something of an acquired taste.  In other words, if you try it, the first time you may be somewhat ambivalent about it.  But, perhaps, the second time you drink it you get to like it a little more.  Perhaps some of the same way people feel about olives -- some of them do.

The objective of the copy, therefore, was to really make the point, if you try this, you may feel a little ambivalent about it, but you'll kinda get to like it.  And if you take it a second time, you may get to enjoy it even more.

Q.  Was there a sort of double meaning in the text as it was written?

A.  Yes, there was.  And that was essentially a kind of humorous, tongue-in-cheek, attention sort of device.  That's right.

Q.  And the tongue-in-cheek, attention getting device, while ostensibly about the liqeur had as its double meaning what?

A.  Well, frankly, first sexual experience.

Q.  Was it the intention of the advertising agency in preparing these to do so tastefully?

A.  Yes, it was.

Q.  I notice on the ad, and I'll show you Exhibit 1 (sic), that there appears -- the Jill St. John one again --

THE COURT: It that 8A?

Q.  There is a little c in a circle, which says, "1983, Imported by Campari USA, New York, New York, 48 Proof, Spirit Aperitif Liqeur." And then, on the bottom there is a little r in a circle.

Are you familiar with those legends?

A.  Yes, I am.

Q.  What does the c with the circle indicate?

A.  Well, the c is a copywrite registration.

Q.  And the r?

A.  And the r is the registration of the trade mark.

Q.  Okay.  And approximately how much money was spent by your client, the Campari company, in producing and disseminating these ads to the millions of people who saw it in various places?

A.  Just about three million dollars ($3,000,000.00) over the three (3) years that we advertised it.

Q.  Earlier in this trial, Mr. Jordan, there was introduced into evidence as Plaintiff's Exhibit #1, part of Plaintiff's Exhibit #1, an ad which appeared in the November, 1983 and in the March, 1984 issues of Hustler magazine called, "Jerry Falwell Talks About His First Time".  You notice that publication, comparing it with Plaintiff's Exhibit's #8A, 8B, 8C, and 8D, do you notice any apparent similarities between the Falwell ad and the other ads which are agency prepared?

A.  Well, I do now and I did when it was first brought to my notice.

Q.  Mr. Jordan, would you tell us, did you on behalf of Campari itself either seek for, solicit of obtain the consent of Reverend Falwell for the ad shown in this exhibit from Hustler magazine?

A.  No, sir, we had absolutely nothing to do with the preparation of that ad.

Q.  Was your permission or consent sought or given with regard to the use of the Campari bottle, the orange drink and the other drink in the smaller bottle, together with the tongs and ice cube which appear in the Falwell ad?

A.  It was absolutely not sought.

Q.  And I call your attention to the Jill St. John ad and I ask you to compare the graphic art work of the depiction of the bottle, the two glasses, the drinks, the tongs and the ice cube which is shown in the authorized ad of Jill St. John prepared by Campari and the graphic material which appears in the Falwell ad: A Campari bottle, two drinks, tongs and a glass -- and an ice cube rather.  Do they appear to be the same?

A.  They appear to be identical.

Q.  Looking at the Falwell ad with the Campari trade mark and copywrite material, to your knowledge, Mr. Jordan, was that pirated by Hustler?

A.  It appears to me to be identical and therefore was pirated.

* * *

Q.  Did you and your client discuss that ad?

A.  Yes, we did.

Q.  And subsequent to the conversation which your client had with you about the ad, did you do something?

A.  Yes, I did.

* * *

Q.  After this conversation, Mr. Jordan, did you on behalf of Campari write a letter to the publishers of Hustler magazine?

A.  Yes, I did.

* * *

Mr. Jordan, after you wrote this letter expressing your shock and dismay and belief in the damage that had been caused, did you receive any response from Larry and Althea Flynt, publishers of Hustler, or anybody on their behalf?

A.  No, I did not.