MR. FORAN: Will you state your name, please?

THE WITNESS: Dwayne Oklepek.

MR. FORAN: What was your occupation in the Summer of 1968?

THE WITNESS: I was a reporter for the Chicago Today.

MR. FORAN: Was that a full-time occupation?

THE WITNESS: No, that was just a job for the summer.  I was a senior at Cornell College in Mount Vernon, Iowa.

MR. FORAN: Now, during the summer of 1968 were you given any special assignment?

THE WITNESS: Yes, I was.  I was to go to Mobilization headquarters and work with them as a volunteer worker.

MR. FORAN: Were you given any instructions about revealing your identity or your occupation?

THE WITNESS: I was only told to tell the Mobilization people that I was a reporter if I was asked.

MR.  FORAN: How long did you work at that office?

THE WITNESS: From July 24 until August 30, 1968, almost every working day.

MR. FORAN: What were your duties while you worked there?

THE WITNESS: I made phone calls to secure housing for demonstrators who were coming into the city for the Convention, I typed form letters, did some filing and answered the telephone when it rang.

MR. FORAN: What hours did ordinarily work?

THE WITNESS: Well, I ordinarily got there about nine or ten in the morning and stayed until three or four in the afternoon, at least.  That Would be an average day.

MR. FORAN: Now, calling your attention to August 9, 1968, in the morning. where were you?

THE WITNESS: I was in the Mobilization office.

MR. FORAN: Were any of the defendants present in the office on that day?

THE WITNESS: Yes, they were Mr. Davis, Mr. Hayden and Mr. Froines.

MR. WEINGLASS: Your Honor please, I object.  I feel that the Government his not laid a proper foundation.  They have not demonstrated in any way through any evidence that there was an unlawful association among the defendants.  They can, therefore, not proceed to introduce evidence of any particular acts or conversations.

THE COURT: We have considered this problem, and I overrule your objection.

MR. FORAN: Now, what occurred, if anything?

THE WITNESS: Mr. Davis walked in with Mr. Hayden and said that there was going to be a meeting, what he termed the corps of marshals, on the west side of the main room, and he said that anyone who is in the office at that time who wished to participate in this first meeting of the corps of marshals should go into that room.

MR. FORAN: Was there a conversation in that room at hit time?

THE WITNESS: There was.

MR. FORAN: Who said what, Mr. Oklepek?

THE WITNESS: Mr. Davis began speaking first.  He pulled out a street map of the city of Chicago and set it tip so we could all look at it, and began to point out the various routes which he said the Mobilization was trying to get for a march on August 28, 1968.  Then Mr. Davis began to speak about whit he termed the perimeter defense of Lincoln Park.  Mr. Davis said that he expected that if demonstrators tried to sleep in the park past the announced curfew time of  11:00 p.m., that some time after midnight they could probably expect the park to be surrounded by police and, or National Guardsmen and that arrests would begin after that time.
    Mr. Davis said in order to combat this situation. all of the separate groups of demonstrators who were sleeping in the park should have designated places to go in the event arrests occurred, and that these groups should attempt to break out of the park through the police lines, or past the police lines, to avoid the arrest situation.

MR. FORAN: Did he say where they should go?

THE WITNESS: Mr. Davis felt that the separate groups should form up and then attempt to move their way south to the Loop area, where Mr. Davis said they should, in his own words, "tie it up and bust it up." He went on to say he thought that these groups should try to disrupt traffic, should smash windows, run through the stores and through the streets.

MR. FORAN: Was there anything else said at that time, that you recall?

THE WITNESS: Someone objected at that time to marching down 35th Street and along Halsted.  He said there were a great many viaducts along these two routes, and that people conceivably could get on them and attack the demonstrators by throwing missiles at them, and things like that.  Mr. Davis said, and these again are his own words, "We will put marshals on those things and they will shoot the shit out of anyone who opens up on us." MR. FORAN: Do you recall anything else that was discussed at that meeting?

THE WITNESS: Someone asked Mr. Davis what would occur if it were impossible for the demonstrators to get out of Lincoln Park at all at night if an arrest situation commenced, and Mr. Davis said, "That's easy, we just riot."

MR. FORAN: Now, do you recall anything that occurred at that meeting, right at the end of the meeting, Mr. Oklepek?

THE WITNESS: Yes, I do recall some assignments being made.

MR. FORAN: What were those assignments, Mr. Oklepek?

THE WITNESS: Each of the people in that room was to make detailed maps of certain blocks of the downtown area and of certain places which were going to be demonstration targets during Convention week.

MR. FORAN: Were you to draw one of these maps?

THE WITNESS: Yes.

MR. FORAN: Did the meeting break up then?

THE WITNESS: Yes, it did.

MR. FORAN: Now, calling your attention to August 15, 1968, in the afternoon, where were you, Mr. Oklepek?

THE WITNESS: I was in Lincoln Park on the baseball field which is adjacent to LaSalle Drive at the southernmost end of the park.
    Dave Baker took the twenty-five or thirty people who were there and lined them up side by side in rows of five or six so that they all faced in one direction and then he put one line in back of another so that there were five lines of five or six people all facing the front.
    He had with him an eight-foot-long pole which was about an inch-and-a-half in diameter, round so that it fit very well into the palm of a hand, and he gave this pole to the front row of people and told them to link arms like this [indicating] and grasp the pole with both hands.  Then each of these successive rows in back of this first row also linked arms and then every other person in between these two people on the end reached forward and grasped the belt of the person in front of them.
    Then the formation moved as close together as possible so that it could run without any person stepping on the heels of the person in front of him and then Mr. Baker began to chant something to synchronize our foot movements and the entire group began to jog in place.  Then after that Mr. Baker instructed us to begin moving forward and we began to move in straight lines across the park, and after we had done this for a few minutes and got a bit skilled at it, he began having us move in wavy lines and make turns and to go faster and slower at his command.
    After about fifteen minutes of this, Mr. Baker and Mr. Froines and Mr. Hayden began to simulate attacks on this group such as might be expected from police.  They began to hit people who were in strategic positions in the formation to try and knock them down or trip them to demonstrate to us how we should be alert for these things and what these sort of attacks could do to the entire formation.

MR. FORAN: At the completion of the training, did you overhear a conversation concerning it?

THE WITNESS: Mr. Hayden told the group that this snake dance formation was the same type that Japanese students had used to precipitate riots in Japan in 1960 which prevented then President Eisenhower from visiting that country.  He said that getting people together in this kind of formation, getting them moving and chanting and yelling, aroused their emotions, sustained their spirits, got them very excited.
    He said that this formation was very good for breaking through police lines and that in the event of an arrest situation, this formation would be used during Convention week to break police lines and to try to escape from Lincoln Park, for instance.  He also said that it was good for moving people over large distances in the event of a riot situation.

MR. FORAN: Now, calling your attention to August 15, 1968, in the evening, where were you, Mr. Oklepek?

THE WITNESS: At Mobilization headquarters at 407 South Dearborn.

MR. FORAN: How many people were there?

THE WITNESS: Approximately eight or ten.

MR. FORAN: And were any of the defendants present at that meeting?

THE WITNESS: Mr. Hayden, Mr. Davis and Mr. Froines were there.
    Someone suggested that the marshals have what they termed political discussions.  He specifically asked how Chicago police should be handled differently than army troops or National Guardsmen, if they should.  At this point, Mr. Hayden said---this is becoming rather obscene.

MR. FORAN: Go ahead.

THE WITNESS: Mr. Hayden said, "Fuck them all.  They are all pigs."
    Mr. Froines then said that he believed that army troops would be more likely to be lenient with demonstrators than the Chicago policemen because the majority of army troops are draftees that would have been conscripted against their will, and, therefore, would be very sympathetic to the antiwar cause of the demonstrators.  Mr. Froines felt that National Guardsmen would be even easier to handle because they would have been citizens only a few hours before their getting into Uniform.  They would be used to exercising their constitutional rights, and that, therefore, they would be susceptible to the logic of the demonstrators; that a genuine effort should be made among the demonstrators to get the National Guardsmen to literally join them in their demonstration.
    Mr. Davis then said that there would be no way to deal logically or rationally with the Chicago police; that they were the most belligerent and uncompromising and unthinking law enforcement agency which the demonstrators would face, and that there was no hope of avoiding a confrontation with the Chicago police.

MR. FORAN: Calling your attention to August 24 in the afternoon, where were you?

THE WITNESS: I was in Lincoln Park.

MR. FORAN: What was going on there?

THE WITNESS: There was snake dance training going on, and another group which was practicing karate techniques.

MR. FORAN: Did you see any of the defendants directing those snake dances and those karate techniques, participating in them?

MR. KUNSTLER: Objection, leading.

THE COURT: I don't believe it is leading in view of the witness' preceding answer.  I overrule the objection.  You may answer, sir.

THE WITNESS: Mr. Hoffman was leading one of those groups.

MR. FORAN: While you were in Lincoln Park that afternoon, did you participate in a conversation with one of the defendants?

THE WITNESS: Yes, Mr. Hayden.

MR. FORAN: Was anyone else present at that conversation?

THE WITNESS: Dave Baker.

MR. FORAN: Would you state what occurred, and what was said?

THE WITNESS: Well, Mr. Baker and I were standing about three feet apart.  We were looking east, and Mr. Hayden was standing about four feet in front of us, and the three of us were looking at a group of people who were practicing self-defense tactics which were to be used against the Chicago police.
    Mr. Hayden turned his head from looking at the people who were practicing---

MR. KUNSTLER: Your Honor, I object to that portion, "which would be used against the Chicago police."
    I don't think there is anything at this point that indicates this witness was told who these were to be used against.

THE COURT: Overruled.  I overrule the objection.

MR. FORAN: Go ahead, Mr. Oklepek.

THE WITNESS: He turned his head from watching these people who were practicing these tactics and said to Mr. Baker, "Let's not mess around with this.  Let's just go and get them."

MR. FORAN: Do you recall any further conversation at that time?

THE WITNESS: Yes.  Mr. Hoffman was addressing a group of people who had been practicing snake dancing.  He said that groups of people in the snake dance formations in different formations could be used to distract police in the event that police tried to arrest a large group of people.
    He spoke about guerrilla theatre tactics.  That is, spontaneous demonstrations which could occur at a moment's notice, and said that in the event that demonstrators had inspiration to do one of these things, they should immediately get together in a group and position themselves logistically in order to confront whatever situation they were in.

MR. FORAN: Now do you recall any further conversation on that day by any of the defendants?

THE WITNESS: I remember a statement made by Mr. Hayden.  I remember a conversation that to the best of my recollection took place on that day.

MR. WEINGLASS: There is no foundation for where or when to this question and I object to it on that basis.

MR. FORAN: To the best of his recollection it was on this day in Lincoln Park.  He is not certain it was that day and there is nothing I can do about changing that, your Honor.

THE COURT: You may answer, sir.

THE WITNESS: Mr. Hayden made the statement.  He said we should have an army and get guns.

MR. FORAN: Will you indicate where you were on August 28 at 7:30 p.m.

THE WITNESS: I was on the west side of Michigan Avenue, in the doorway of the building directly adjacent to the Sheraton-Blackstone Hotel.

MR. FORAN: What was going on?

THE WITNESS: Well, the crowd was very agitated.  There was chanting, a great deal of movement, people in the crowd pressing to get into the intersection, pressing up toward the Hilton Hotel.  They were chanting.  They were very agitated.  One youth was atop a traffic light here in the middle of the intersection.  They were waving flags, chanting, very agitated, very excited.

MR. FORAN: Do you remember any of the chants?

THE WITNESS: They were chanting, "Daley must go." They were chanting, "Dump the Hump." They chanted, "Hell, no, we won't go," and the other one, I believe it was, "NFL is going to win, Ho, Ho, Ho Chi Minh," among others, which I have forgotten.

MR. FORAN: How long did you stand there?

THE WITNESS: Well, I was moving south and north as the tear gas came and went, until about two o'clock in the morning.

MR. FORAN: Now, Mr. Oklepek, calling your attention to the next morning, August 29, where were you?

THE WITNESS: I was in Mobilization headquarters, again.

MR. FORAN: Were any of the defendants present?

THE WITNESS: Yes, Mr. Dellinger was present.

MR. FORAN: Did you have a conversation with him?

THE WITNESS: Yes.  I asked Mr. Dellinger what sort of demonstration was to take place that afternoon in Grant Park, and he said, "A short one.  We have won a moral victory and now we have to get everyone home in one piece to use it."

MR. FORAN: That is all, your Honor.
    You may cross-examine.

MR. KUNSTLER: Mr. Oklepek. would you describe your role with reference to the Mobilization as that of a paid informer?

THE WITNESS: No.

MR. KUNSTLER: Were you paid for what you did?

THE WITNESS: Not to inform, no.

MR. KUNSTLER: Did you inform?

THE WITNESS: That was reporting---, it was not informing.

MR. KUNSTLER: Mr. Oklepek, do you recall making a rather lengthy statement to agents of the Federal Bureau of Investigation on October 1, 1968?

THE WITNESS: Yes, I do.

MR. KUNSTLER: I want to show you Defendants' 35 for identification and ask you if this is the statement which you made.

THE WITNESS: Yes, this is the statement.

MR. KUNSTLER: Were the statements that appear in Defendants' Exhibit 35 for identification true and correct at the time you signed it?

THE WITNESS: Yes, they were.

MR. KUNSTLER: I am going to ask you, Mr. Oklepek, whether on the first day of October, 1968, you did not make this statement:
    "On May 19, 1968, 1 was hired by Jack Mabley, Associate Editor of the Chicago American, a newspaper published in Chicago, Illinois, for the purpose of obtaining data on individuals connected with, and activities of organizations known as the Students for a Democratic Society [SDS] and the National Mobilization Committee to End the War in Vietnam [NMC].  I was to obtain this data through becoming associated with these organizations, but without disclosing my connection with the Chicago American.  For this work I was paid the regular starting salary of a newspaper reporter, amounting to $140 per week."
Did you make this statement?

MR. FORAN: Your Honor, I object to counsel reading from a document not in evidence.

THE COURT: I sustain the objection.

MR. KUNSTLER: Your Honor, this is classic impeachment procedure.

THE COURT: I think it is neither.  It is not classic and not impeachment.  I sustain the  objection.

MR. KUNSTLER: What did Mr. Mabley say to you?

THE WITNESS: He said, "Would you object to infiltrating SDS and National Mobilization in order to get stories which will be pertinent to the Democratic National Convention?" or something to that effect.  I said yes, I would do it.

MR. KUNSTLER: Now, after Mr. Mabley offered you the assignment, and you said you had no objection, what did you do to embark on it?

THE WITNESS: The first thing I believe I started doing was just walking through Old Town to a few places there where I thought from previous experience that I might meet some people who were connected with SDS.

MR. KUNSTLER: You just walked around Old Town?

THE WITNESS: I went down to SDS headquarters a few times.

MR. KUNSTLER: Was one of your assignments to infiltrate SDS with reference to the Democratic National Convention.

THE WITNESS: Yes.  Mr. Mabley said I should try SDS.
 
MR. KUNSTLER: Now, at the meeting o f August 9, 1968, 1 believe you stated on your direct examination that Mr. Davis had made some sort of remark about the viaducts in the white community on Halsted north of Garfield Boulevard.
    As I recall your testimony, the remark was, "We'll put marshals on those things and they'll shoot the shit out of anyone who opens up on us."
    Now at the time Mr. Davis made the remark, isn't it a fact, Mr. Oklepek, that everybody attending that meeting laughed?

THE WITNESS: Most of them did, that is true.

MR. KUNSTLER: Up to that time, August 9, 1968, had you heard any discussion from anybody in the Mobilization office about guns?

THE WITNESS: I don't recall any conversation about guns before that point, no.

MR. KUNSTLER: Did you see any guns before that time, before August 9?

THE WITNESS: No, I did not.

MR. KUNSTLER: Did you ever see any person in Mobilization wearing a gun?

THE WITNESS: Not that I could see, no.

MR. KUNSTLER: You say not that you could see.  Are you saying that you saw the outlines under their coats?

THE WITNESS: I saw bulges under their coats.

MR. KUNSTLER: Oh, you saw bulges.  Did you say to yourself at that time, "Those are guns?"

THE WITNESS: I said to myself at that time, "Those are bulges."

MR.  KUNSTLER: "Those are bulges." Extremely accurate.
    Would you just indicate for me whether at any time of your connection with Mobilization from the twenty-fourth of July until the thirtieth of August, 1968, that you ever saw a firearm on any person in the office or in any connection with Mobilization people?

THE WITNESS: Not that I could observe on their person, no.

MR. KUNSTLER: Is it not a fact that you heard the marshals instructed on, I believe, August 13, that they were under no circumstances to carry weapons at all, because that would provoke the police?

THE WITNESS: Dave Baker did say that, yes.

MR. KUNSTLER: Were you conscious or aware during your work for Mobilization that attempts were being made to get a permit from the City of Chicago or permits to conduct demonstrations?

MR. FORAN: Objection.

THE COURT: I sustain the objection.

MR. FORAN: He didn't make the attempts.

MR. KUNSTLER: Did you hear any negotiations being carried out over the telephone or in person for permits by National Mobilization leaders?

THE WITNESS: No, I did not hear any negotiations.

MR. KUNSTLER: Was there a lot of discussion about these permits or the attempt to get them, in the office?

THE WITNESS: Yes, there was.

MR. KUNSTLER: That was a pretty general subject, was it not, the attempt to obtain permits?

THE WITNESS: Yes.

MR. KUNSTLER: In fact, didn't you state to the FBI that you were very impressed with these efforts to obtain permits?

MR. FORAN: Objection.

THE COURT: The form of the question is bad.  I sustain the objection.

MR. KUNSTLER: If you will turn to page 9 of D-35 for identification, I want to ask whether you told the FBI the following:
    "At the same time I was impressed with the negotiations mentioned as being carried on by NMC leaders with officials or representatives of the city government of Chicago and the apparent efforts to be thorough and leave no avenue uncovered as regards obtaining legal authority for any specific activity being planned."
    Did you say that?

MR. FORAN: Objection, your Honor, as reading from a document not in evidence and I ask the jury be directed to disregard the question.

THE COURT: Yes.  The jury is directed to disregard that question.

MR. KUNSTLER: Mr. Oklepek, did there come any time while you were in the office working that you would look through the Mobilization files?

THE WITNESS: Yes, there were such occasions.

MR. KUNSTLER: Is it not true that in doing so you found nothing whatsoever that would indicate anybody was planning any trouble at the Democratic National
Convention?

THE WITNESS: I didn't find anything that seemed to indicate anything was going to happen at the Democratic National Convention . . .

MR. KUNSTLER: Didn't the National Mobilization Committee leaders constantly stress that the purpose of the marshals, their very function, was to avoid violence, if possible?

THE WITNESS: They were to prevent demonstrators from being arrested.

MR. KUNSTLER: You are telling me that is all you ever heard was said to you or the other marshals by any leader of the National Mobilization Committee, that the sole purpose of the marshals was to prevent demonstrators from being arrested?

THE WITNESS: Yes, or to get arrested themselves to prevent such arrest of demonstrators.

MR. KUNSTLER: Now, will you look at Exhibit D-50 for identification at the portion I have underlined about the purposes of the marshals.
    Is that what you told the readers of Chicago Today in your bylined article?

MR. FORAN: I object to that.

THE COURT: I sustain the objection.

MR. KUNSTLER: Have you ever said anything contrary to what you have just told us here?

THE WITNESS: I don't believe so, no.

MR. KUNSTLER: Did you ever tell or say anywhere that one of the purposes of the marshals was to protect the marchers from unwarranted assault from police and indigenous population?  Didn't you say that?

THE WITNESS: Not that I remember.

MR. KUNSTLER: Then I take it your testimony is that you have never written or said that one of the purposes of the marshals was to protect the marchers from assaults by police and indigenous population?

MR. FORAN: I object to that.

MR. KUNSTLER: Now you were present, were you not, in the vicinity of Grant Park on August 28, 1968?

THE WITNESS: Yes, I was.

MR. KUNSTLER: During that time, did you see or smell the use of tear gas?

THE WITNESS: Yes.

MR. KUNSTLER: During that time, did you see policemen clubbing demonstrators?

THE WITNESS: Yes.

MR. KUNSTLER: During that time, did you see them clubbing women and children?

THE WITNESS: I did not see them clubbing children.

MR. KUNSTLER: All right.  Did you see them clubbing women?

THE WITNESS: That is difficult to answer yes or no.  When two people are striking each other at close quarters, who was clubbing who?

MR. KUNSTLER: Did you see women with clubs?

THE WITNESS: I saw women using implements as clubs, yes.

MR. KUNSTLER: And you never saw a policeman throw or club a woman to the street, is that correct?

THE WITNESS: No, I did not.

MR. KUNSTLER: Did you see them club men to the street?

THE WITNESS: Yes.

MR. KUNSTLER: Did you see people lying on the ground, demonstrators?

THE WITNESS: I saw people lying on the ground, yes.

MR. KUNSTLER: Did you see people bleeding in the streets?

THE WITNESS: Yes, I saw people bleeding on that street.

MR. KUNSTLER: Did you see any policemen chasing after demonstrators, running after them?

THE WITNESS: Yes, I did.

MR. KUNSTLER: And did you see them catch up with any of the demonstrators?

THE WITNESS: Yes, I did.

MR. KUNSTLER: Did you see them then club the demonstrators after they caught up with them?

THE WITNESS: In some cases.

MR. KUNSTLER: And did those clubs land on heads---

THE WITNESS: In some cases.

MR. KUNSTLER: ---as you watched?  And did you see blood spurt under those clubs?

THE WITNESS: When they hit their heads, yes.

MR. KUNSTLER: It has a squashy sound, doesn't it, if you heard it?

MR. FORAN: Now, come on.  I object.

MR. KUNSTLER: I will withdraw the question.
   Did you hear the sound of a club hitting a bare head?

THE WITNESS: Four times, three or four times.

MR. KUNSTLER: That is not a very pleasant sound to hear, is it?

THE WITNESS: I suppose not, no.

MR. KUNSTLER: You suppose not.  Did it ever pass or cross your mind that the marshal training program had been eminently justified by what happened?

MR. FORAN: Object.

THE COURT: Sustained.

MR. KUNSTLER: Before we get to the next, I want to ask you one question.  Were you aware that the people in the National Mobilization office at a certain period of time, particularly somewhere between August 9 and August 20, considered you an informer?  Did you come to that conclusion?

MR. FORAN: I object to that.

THE COURT: I sustain the objection.

MR. KUNSTLER: Did anyone, Mr. Froines or Mr. Davis or anyone else, ever tell you that they were suspicious of your motives in being in the office?

THE WITNESS: On August 28, in the afternoon, I saw Mr. Weiner who was walking across Columbia Drive and asked him a question about the demonstration,
and he said, "What do you care, you're on their side anyway," and kept on walking.

MR. KUNSTLER: That was August 28.  What about Mr. Davis, prior to that?

THE WITNESS: I do not remember.

MR. KUNSTLER: Your Honor, I have no further questions.

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