THE COURT: Will you call the witness, please?
MR. KUNSTLER: Would you state your full name for the record?
THE WITNESS: Timothy F. Leary.
MR. KUNSTLER: Dr. Leary, what is your present occupation?
THE WITNESS: I am the Democratic candidate for Governor in California.
MR. KUNSTLER: Is that in the primary?
THE WITNESS: Yes, sir, Democratic primary
THE COURT: Just so that the jury will be clear, do you call being a candidate an occupation, sir?
THE WITNESS: Well, it is taking most of' my time at present, your Honor.
THE COURT: What is your regular occupation?
THE WITNESS: I am a religious ordained minister, and I am a college lecturer.
MR. KUNSTLER: Can you state what your educational background is?
THE WITNESS: Yes, sir, I received a Ph.D. in clinical psychology from the University of California, Berkeley, in 1950. 1 was two years at Holy Cross College, and a year and a half at West Point, the United States Military Academy.
MR. KUNSTLER: Now, Dr. Leary, can you state briefly your professional experience since receiving your Ph.D. in 1950?
THE WITNESS: Yes, from 1950 to 1956, I was on the faculty of the University of California and the University of California Medical School in San Francisco. I was also the director of the Kaiser Foundation Psychological Research from 1952 to 1957.
MR. KUNSTLER: And after that?
THE WITNESS: I taught at the University of Copenhagen in the Philosophy and Psychology Department in Denmark in 1958, and then in 1959 I joined the faculty at Harvard University and taught at Harvard from 1959 to 1963 in clinical psychology and personality psychology.
MR. KUNSTLER: Dr. Leary, have you been the author of any publications?
THE WITNESS: Yes, I have written two books on experimental clinical psychology and about twenty scientific articles in this field. I have written six books and over fifty scientific articles on the effects of psychedelic drugs on human psychology and human consciousness.
MR. KUNSTLER: Doctor, can you explain what a psychedelic drug is?
THE WITNESS: I will try. Psychedelic drugs are drugs which speed
up thinking, which broaden the consciousness, which produce religious experiences
or creative experiences, or philosophic experiences in the person who takes
These psychedelic drugs, of course, are the opposite of the nonpsychedelic drugs like heroin, or alcohol, and barbiturates which slow down thinking, as opposed to psychedelic drugs which expand and accelerate the consciousness.
MR. KUNSTLER: Now, there came a time, did there not, Dr. Leary, when you left Harvard University?
THE WITNESS: Yes, I was dismissed from Harvard University in 1963. There were two reasons for my dismissal. One was a dispute over schedule of classes, and the other was because I was continuing to do research on the effects of psychedelic drugs which was politically risky for Harvard University to sponsor.
MR. KUNSTLER: What was the nature of that research?
MR. FORAN: I object to that, your Honor.
THE COURT: I sustain the objection.
MR. KUNSTLER: Your Honor, we want to show the background of Dr. Leary and the type of work he was doing. There has been a great misconception about the type of work he was doing. We want to explain it to the jury.
THE COURT: Dr. Leary's work isn't in issue here. He is not a defendant here.
MR. KUNSTLER: Now, Dr. Leary, do you recall when your first met Jerry Rubin?
THE WITNESS: Yes, I do. I met Jerry Rubin at the love-in at San Francisco, which was January 1967.
MR. KUNSTLER: And do you know where that love-in was held?
THE WITNESS: Yes, that was held in Golden Gate Park, and I think either seventy or eighty thousand people came to the park to participate in this love-in.
MR. FORAN: Objection.
THE COURT: I sustain the objection. Seven or eight thousand?
MR. KUNSTLER: Seventy or eighty thousand.
THE COURT: Oh, even worse.
MR. KUNSTLER: Even better.
All right, Dr. Leary, when did you first meet Abbie Hoffman?
THE WITNESS: The first time I met Mr. Hoffman was at the LSD Shrine
and Rescue Center in New York City. That would be November or December
MR. KUNSTLER: Now, lest there be any confusion, what does LSD stand for?
THE WITNESS: It was the League of Spiritual Discovery. That was
a religion incorporated in the State of New York and we had a rescue center
in New York
where hundreds of people taking drugs could be rehabilitated.
MR. KUNSTLER: Dr. Leary, I call your attention to late January of 1968 and ask you whether you met with Jerry and Abbie during that month at that time?
THE WITNESS: Yes, I did. I met with Mr. Hoffman and Mr. Rubin and with other people and we formed and founded the Youth International Party.
MR. KUNSTLER: Now, with reference to the founding of the Youth International Party, which we will refer to as Yippie, can you state what was said by the people attending there with reference to the founding of this party?
THE WITNESS: Well, Julius Lester said that the current parties are not
responsive to the needs of black people, particularly young black people.
Allen Ginsberg said that the Democrat and Republican Parties are not responsive
to the creative youth and to college students and high school students
who expect more from society.
Abbie Hoffman, as I remember, was particularly eloquent in describing the need for new political tactics and techniques.
MR. FORAN: Objection.
THE COURT: You are not privileged to characterize the participants in that way.
MR. KUNSTLER: Even if you were impressed by what people said, don't indicate whether they were eloquent or what-have-you.
MR. FORAN: Your Honor, I object to Mr. Kunstler's comments which he knows are improper.
MR. KUNSTLER: I was trying to assist Mr. Foran.
THE COURT: I will do the directing. You ask the questions.
MR. KUNSTLER: Would you go ahead, Dr. Leary?
THE WITNESS: Abbie Hoffman said that new political methods were needed
because the conventions of the Democrat and Republican Parties were controlled
by machine politics which had nothing to do with the needs of the people.
Mr. Hoffman continued to say that we should set up a series of political meetings throughout the country, not just for the coming summer but for the coming years. Mr. Hoffman suggested that we have love-ins or be-ins in which thousands of young people and freedom-loving people throughout the country Could get together on Sunday afternoons, listen to music which represented the new point of view, the music of love and peace and harmony, and try to bring about a political change in this country that would be nonviolent in people's minds and in their hearts, and this is the concept of the love-in which Mr. Hoffman was urging upon us.
MR. KUNSTLER: Now, at any time during this discussion did anyone make an reference to the Democratic National Convention?
THE WITNESS: Mr. Hoffman said it was important to have a large group
of young people and black people and freedom-loving people come to Chicago
during the Democratic Convention the following August. That it was
important that people that were concerned about peace and brotherhood,
come to Chicago and in a very dignified, beautiful way meet in the parks
and represent what Mr. Hoffman called the politics of life and politics
of love and peace and brotherhood.
Mr. Rubin, I remember, pointed out that since the Democratic Party was meeting here, there was great concern about having police and having National Guard and they were bringing in tear gas. Mr. Rubin pointed out that it could possibly be violent here, and both Mr. Rubin and Allen Ginsberg said that they didn't think that we should come to Chicago if there was a possibility of violence from the soldiers or the police.
MR. KUNSTLER: I call Your attention to March of 1968, somewhere in the middle of March, and I ask you if you can recall being present at a press conference?
THE WITNESS: Yes.
MR. KUNSTLER: Prior to this press conference had you had any other meetings with Jerry and Abbie?
THE WITNESS: Yes, we had met two or three times during the spring.
MR. FORAN: Your Honor, I object to the constant use of the diminutives in the reference to the defendants,
MR. KUNSTLER: Your Honor, sometimes it is hard because we work together in this case, we use first names constantly.
THE COURT: I know, but if I knew you that well, and I don't, how would it seem for me to say, "Now, Billy--"
MR. KUNSTLER: Your Honor, it is perfectly acceptable to me-if I could have the reverse privilege.
THE COURT: I don't like it. I have disapproved of it before and I ask you now to refer to the defendants by their surnames.
MR. KUNSTLER: I was just thinking I hadn't been called "Billy" since my mother used that word the first time.
THE COURT: I haven't called you that.
MR. KUNSTLER: It evokes some memories.
THE COURT: I was trying to point out to you how absurd it sounds in a courtroom.
MR. KUNSTLER: Dr. Leary, did you speak at that press conference?
THE WITNESS: Yes. I described in great detail the harassment that
we had suffered in our religious center at Millbrook, New York, by the
police. I describe how for the preceding two or three months there
had been a police blockade around this young people's center in upstate
New York and that our houses had been ransacked at night by sheriffs and
policemen and how our young children were being arrested on their bicycles
on the roads outside of our houses because they didn't have identification.
And I described how helicopters had been coming over to observe our behavior and I raised the possibility that we did not want this to happen in Chicago and we hoped that Chicago would be free from this sort of unpleasant encounter, because at Millbrook we were living very peaceably, bothering nobody until we were harassed and surrounded by the police.
MR. KUNSTLER: Now. during the month of March did you have occasion to speak with Jerry Rubin?
THE WITNESS: Yes, I called Jerry to tell him about the results of the Yippie meeting in Chicago.
MR. KUNSTLER: All right. Will you tell the jury and the Court what you told Jerry and what he told you, if anything, in that phone conversation?
THE WITNESS: I told Mr. Rubin that I had never experienced such fear on the part of the young people as I did in the young people of Chicago, that they were, literally trembling about the possibility of violence in August. And I raised the issue to Jerry as to whether we should reconsider coming to Chicago.
MR. KUNSTLER: Now. up to this time in this telephone conversation had you had any conversation with Jerry Rubin or Abbie Hoffman about LSD in the Chicago water supply?
MR. FORAN: I object to that, your Honor.
THE COURT: I sustain the objection.
MR. KUNSTLER: Now, Dr. Leary, I call your attention to April of 1968. and ask you if you recall a meeting with Jerry Rubin and Abbie Hoffman?
THE WITNESS: Yes, I met with Jerry Rubin and Abbie Hoffman.
MR. KUNSTLER: What did you say?
THE WITNESS: Mr. Hoffman pointed out that since our last meeting, President
Johnson had retired from office. Therefore, President Johnson would
not be coming to Chicago. Therefore, the meaning of a celebration
of life on our part as opposed to Mr. Johnson was lost since the man we
were attempting to oppose was not going to come to Chicago.
Both Mr. Hoffman and Mr. Rubin at that time said to me before I left that they were not sure whether we should come to Chicago, and that we would watch what happened politically. At that time, Jerry Rubin pointed out that Robert Kennedy was still alive, and many of us felt that he represented the aspirations of young people, so we thought we would wait. I remember Mr. Rubin saving, "Let's wait and see what Robert Kennedy comes out with as far as peace is concerned. Let's wait to see if Robert Kennedy does speak to voting people, and if Robert Kennedy does seek to represent the peaceful, joyous, erotic feelings of young people--"
THE COURT: "Erotic," did you say?
THE WITNESS: Erotic.
THE COURT: E-R-O-T-I-C?
THE WITNESS: Eros. That means love, your Honor.
THE COURT: I know, I know. I wanted to be sure I didn't mishear you
THE WITNESS: So Mr. Rubin suggested that we hold off the decision as to whether we come to Chicago until we saw how Mr. Kennedy's campaign developed, and at that point, I think most of us would have gladly, joyously called off the Chicago meeting.
MR. KUNSTLER: You did not yourself come to Chicago, did you, during the Democratic National Convention?
THE WITNESS: No. I did not come to Chicago myself.
MR. KUNSTLER: Right. Now prior to the Convention week, did you have any conversation with Jerry Rubin?
THE WITNESS: Yes, at the end of July. I told Mr. Rubin that I had decided not to come to Chicago. Mr. Rubin asked me why.
MR. FORAN: Objection as to his reasons for not coming.
THE COURT: I should say that is irrelevant. I sustain the objection.
MR. KUNSTLER: Your witness.
THE COURT: Cross-examination.
MR. FORAN: Dr. Leary, will you name the drugs that you said speeded up thinking?
THE WITNESS: Yes, psychedelic or mind-expanding drugs include LSD, mescaline, peyote, marijuana, and I could go on. There is a list of perhaps thirty or forty chemical compounds and natural vines and herbs. Do you want more?
MR. FORAN: No, that is enough.
Now, when you talked to Jerry Rubin in late March over the telephone from Chicago, you had a long discussion with him at that time about your fears of violence that would occur in Chicago at the Democratic Convention, did you not?
THE WITNESS: Yes, I had been told this bv the young people in Chicago.
MR. FORAN: And you expressed your concern?
THE WITNESS: Well, I am always concerned about the possibility of violence anywhere at any time. I am against violence.
MR. FORAN: You asked him at that time whether or not you should reconsider coming to Chicago, is that correct?
THE WITNESS: Yes, sir.
MR. FORAN: I have no further questions.
MR. KUNSTLER: I have just one further question.
Dr. Leary, in answer to Mr. Foran's question about the young people, did you tell Jerry Rubin from where the young people in Chicago expected violence to come, from what source?
THE WITNESS: Well, from the militia, the National Guard. The sheriff was fighting with the police chief of Chicago at the time, and the sheriff, I believe, was enlisting vigilantes and just people off the street to be deputy sheriffs.
MR. KUNSTLER: But it was violence from the police?
THE WITNESS: And the National Guard, police, and sheriff.
MR. KUNSTLER: And not from the young people themselves?
THE WITNESS: There was no possibility of that.
MR. KUNSTLER: Thank you.
THE COURT: No further questions? You may go.
CHICAGO 7 TRIAL