TESTIMONY OF BRIAN "KATO" KAELIN

 DIRECT EXAMINATION BY MS. CLARK:

MS. CLARK: MR. KAELIN, IS KATO YOUR MIDDLE NAME?
MR. KAELIN:  NICKNAME.
MS. CLARK: IS THAT WHAT PEOPLE CALL YOU INSTEAD OF BRIAN?
MR. KAELIN: YES.
MS. CLARK: YOU A LITTLE BIT NERVOUS TODAY?
MR. KAELIN: FEEL GREAT. LITTLE NERVOUS.
MS. CLARK: ALL RIGHT. MR. KAELIN, DID YOU KNOW SOMEONE BY THE NAME OF NICOLE BROWN SIMPSON BACK IN 1992?
MR. KAELIN: YES.
MS. CLARK: CAN YOU TELL US, PLEASE, HOW YOU MET HER?
MR. KAELIN: IN ASPEN, COLORADO.
MS. CLARK: AND WHAT WAS THE EVENT?
MR. KAELIN: IT WAS LIKE A CHRISTMAS BREAK AND I WENT WITH A BUDDY, AND WE MET.
MS. CLARK: AND WHAT MONTH WAS THAT, IF YOU RECALL?
MR. KAELIN: DECEMBER.
******
MS. CLARK: DID YOU GET INVOLVED IN SOME KIND OF ROMANTIC RELATIONSHIP WITH HER?
MR. KAELIN: DID I?
MS. CLARK: DID YOU?
MR. KAELIN: NO.
MS. CLARK: DID YOU BECOME FRIENDS?
MR. KAELIN: YES.
*****
MS. CLARK: AFTER SEEING HER AND MEETING HER IN ASPEN IN DECEMBER OF 1992, AFTER THAT TRIP, WHEN WAS THE NEXT TIME YOU SAW NICOLE BROWN?
MR. KAELIN: I SAW HER PRETTY MUCH IN JANUARY AT HER HOUSE THAT WAS ON GRETNA GREEN.
MS. CLARK: JANUARY OF '93 IS THAT?
MR. KAELIN: YES.
******
MS. CLARK: AND WHAT -- WELL, WHAT WOULD CAUSE YOU TO GO TO
HER HOUSE IN BRENTWOOD?
MR. KAELIN: UMM, THERE WAS A PARTY AND I WAS INVITED TO GO.
******
MS. CLARK: NOW, WHEN YOU WENT TO THE PROPERTY -- WHEN YOU WENT TO THAT GRETNA GREEN HOUSE, TO THE PARTY GIVEN BY NICOLE BROWN, DID YOU NOTICE THAT GUEST HOUSE IN THE REAR OF THE PROPERTY?
MR. KAELIN: YES, I DID.

MS. CLARK: CAN YOU TELL US WHETHER YOU HAD A DISCUSSION WITH HER ABOUT THAT GUEST HOUSE IN THE REAR?
MR. KAELIN: I DID. I
MS. CLARK: WHAT WAS THE NATURE OF IT, OF YOUR DISCUSSION?
MR. KAELIN: I SAID, "NICOLE, WHO LIVES BACK THERE," AND SHE SAID, "NO ONE." AND THEN I SAID, "COULD I," AND SHE SAYS,"WELL, IF YOU DO, YOU HAVE TO CLEAN IT OUT." AND I SAID,"GREAT."
 
MS. CLARK: SO DID YOU MAKE SOME AGREEMENT WITH HER CONCERNING PAYING RENT AND LIVING THERE?
MR. KAELIN: YES.
MS. CLARK: AND WHAT WAS YOUR AGREEMENT?
MR. KAELIN: IT WOULD BE 450 TO 500 FOR RENT AND THEN TAKE CARE OF THE KIDS, NICOLE WOULD TAKE THINGS OFF AND THAT WAS IT.
******
MS. CLARK: SO WHEN DID YOU MOVE INTO THE GRETNA GREEN HOUSE?
MR. KAELIN: IT WAS JANUARY -- KIND OF IN THE MIDDLE OF JANUARY I THINK PRETTY -- RIGHT AROUND THERE.
MS. CLARK: OF 1993?
MR. KAELIN: OF '93.
******
MS. CLARK: DID -- DID NICOLE BROWN DECIDE TO MOVE OUT OF GRETNA GREEN IN 1994?
MR. KAELIN:  YES.
MS. CLARK: AND DID SHE FIND ANOTHER LOCATION TO LIVE IN?
MR. KAELIN: YES.
MS. CLARK: AND WHERE WAS THAT?
MR. KAELIN: ON BUNDY.
******
 MS. CLARK: SHOWING YOU THIS PHOTOGRAPH THAT'S PREVIOUSLY BEEN MARKED AS PEOPLE'S 86.
MR. KAELIN: YES.
MS. CLARK: OKAY. DO YOU RECOGNIZE WHAT'S SHOWN THERE?
MR. KAELIN: THE TOWN HOUSE ON BUNDY.
MS. CLARK: OKAY. IS THAT THE TOWN HOUSE THAT YOU WERE DESCRIBING THAT YOU WERE GOING TO MOVE INTO WITH NICOLE?
MR. KAELIN: YES.
MS. CLARK: THANK YOU. NOW, DID YOU EVER MOVE INTO THAT TOWN HOUSE, SIR?
MR. KAELIN: NO.
MS. CLARK: WHY NOT?
MR. KAELIN: I WAS GOING TO MOVE IN AND I MOVED IN AT O.J.'S.
MS. CLARK: WHY NOT -- WHY DID YOU DO THAT?

MR. KAELIN: BECAUSE O.J. ASKED ME TO GO TO HIS HOUSE. YOU MEAN -- IT WAS PART OF THE DEAL. I WENT THERE INSTEAD OF MOVED IN WITH NICOLE. THERE'S
MS. CLARK: WHAT DID THE DEFENDANT SAY TO YOU ABOUT MOVING
INTO HIS HOUSE INSTEAD OF NICOLE'S CONDOMINIUM OR TOWN HOUSE?
MR. KAELIN: I MEAN WE TALKED ABOUT IT AND IT WAS SORT OF LIKE THE RIGHT THING TO DO THAT -- NOT TO BE THE SAME HOUSE, THAT I SHOULD PROBABLY GO THERE, AND O.J. OFFERED ME HIS PLACE. IT WAS FREE AND HE SAID WHEN -- "YOU CAN STAY AS LONG AS YOU WANT AND WHEN IT'S TIME FOR YOU TO GO, HE'D LET ME KNOW."
******
MS. CLARK: DID HE THOUGHT -- DID HE INDICATE TO YOU IN SOME WAY THAT HE THOUGHT IT WAS INAPPROPRIATE FOR YOU TO BE IN THE SAME HOUSE AS HER OR HE DIDN'T LIKE IT?
MR. KAELIN: WELL, NOT DIDN'T LIKE IT, BUT PROBABLY WOULDN'T BE RIGHT.
MS. CLARK: AND WHY WOULDN'T IT BE RIGHT?
MR. KAELIN: I DON'T KNOW THE ANSWER.
******
 MS. CLARK: DID YOU PACK UP AND MOVE ALL OF YOUR THINGS
OVER TO ROCKINGHAM?
MR. KAELIN: YES.
MS. CLARK: WHERE ON ROCKINGHAM DID YOU STAY? WHAT PART OF
THE PROPERTY?
MR. KAELIN: IT'S A -- UH, IT WAS A GUEST HOUSE BY THE POOL.
******
MS. CLARK: NOW, WERE YOU AN ASPIRING ACTOR BACK THEN, SIR?
MR. KAELIN: YES.
MS. CLARK: AND YOU STILL ARE?
MR. KAELIN: YES.
MS. CLARK: DID YOU THINK IT MIGHT BE ADVANTAGEOUS TO YOU TO STAY WITH THE DEFENDANT AND GET TO KNOW HIM FOR YOUR ACTING CAREER?
MR. KAELIN: I DIDN'T THINK THAT. I NEVER ASKED FOR ANYTHING LIKE THAT. I WAS GETTING RENT FREE, SO I DIDN'T -- I DIDN'T ASK ANYTHING.
MS. CLARK:  UH-HUH.   DID YOU THINK THAT YOUR FRIENDSHIP WITH HIM, YOUR ACQUAINTANCESHIP, ESPECIALLY LIVING ON HIS PROPERTY MIGHT SEND ACTING ROLES YOUR WAY?
MR. KAELIN: I DIDN'T THINK THAT. I JUST -- I NEVER ASKED. I WAS HOPEFULLY GETTING THINGS ON MY OWN. BUT I --YOU KNOW, IF HE DID, HE'D BRING IT UP ON HIS OWN. I DON'T THINK WE WERE GOING FOR THE SAME PARTS. I --I DON'T KNOW.
******
MS. CLARK: IN MID TO LATE MAY, DID THE DEFENDANT ASK YOU TO START LOOKING FOR A PLACE TO LIVE?
MR. KAELIN: DID HE ASK ME TO LOOK? NO.
MS. CLARK: DID HE INDICATE ANYTHING TO YOU WITH RESPECT TO HIS RELATIONSHIP WITH NICOLE?
MR. KAELIN: THEIR RELATIONSHIP WAS OVER.
MS. CLARK: HE TOLD YOU THEY WERE BROKEN UP FOR GOOD?
MR. KAELIN: YES.
*******
MS. CLARK: DO YOU RECALL WHAT TIME IT WAS WHEN YOU FIRST SAW THE DEFENDANT ON THE DATE OF JUNE THE 12TH, 1994?
MR. KAELIN: I THOUGHT IT WAS LIKE IN THE AFTERNOON ABOUT 2:00, 2:30.
Q AND WHERE WAS IT THAT YOU HAPPENED TO SEE HIM ON THAT -- AT THAT TIME?
MR. KAELIN: IT WAS IN THE KITCHEN NOOK AREA.
MS. CLARK: DID YOU HAVE A CONVERSATION WITH HIM?
MR. KAELIN: YES.
******
MS. CLARK: OKAY. DID HE MENTION TO YOU ANY PLANS THAT HE HAD FOR LATER ON THAT DAY?
MR. KAELIN: YES.
MS. CLARK: AND WHAT WAS THAT?
MR. KAELIN: THERE WAS A RECITAL, THE DANCE RECITAL OF SIDNEY, HIS DAUGHTER WITH NICOLE.
MS. CLARK: AND WHAT TIME DID HE PLAN TO GO TO THAT?
MR. KAELIN:  5:00 O'CLOCK RECITAL.
MS. CLARK: DID HE TALK TO YOU OR MENTION ANYTHING TO YOU ABOUT NICOLE DURING THAT CONVERSATION?
MR. KAELIN: UMM, IT WAS -- THEY WEREN'T TOGETHER.
MS. CLARK: HOW DID THAT COME UP?
MR. KAELIN:  IT WAS CONVERSATION -- I MEAN, I WAS READING THE PAPER AND IT WOULD COME UP ABOUT JUST NICOLE,  THAT THEIR RELATIONSHIP WAS OVER.
******
 MS. CLARK: NOW, AT SOME POINT DID YOU LEAVE THE HOUSE THAT  AFTERNOON?
MR. KAELIN: YES, I DID.
MS. CLARK: WHAT TIME DID YOU LEAVE THE HOUSE?
MR. KAELIN:  I PROBABLY LEFT ABOUT 3:30 OR 4:00, TO PLAY BASKETBALL.
******
MS. CLARK: AND WHAT TIME DID YOU GET BACK?
MR. KAELIN:  I GOT BACK AT ABOUT SIX O'CLOCK.
MS. CLARK: OKAY. AND WHEN YOU GOT BACK, WHAT DID YOU DO?
MR. KAELIN: I TALKED TO O.J.
******
 MS. CLARK: AND WHAT DID YOU TALK ABOUT?
MR. KAELIN: ABOUT THE GAME, ABOUT WHO WON THE GAME, THE RECITAL, HOW SYDNEY WAS AT THE RECITAL.
MS. CLARK: OKAY. WHAT DID HE SAY TO YOU ABOUT SYDNEY AT THE RECITAL?
MR. KAELIN: HE SAID SYDNEY WAS GREAT AT THE RECITAL.
*******
MS. CLARK:  WHAT DID THE DEFENDANT TELL YOU TRANSPIRED, IF ANYTHING, WITH REGARD TO HIMSELF, NICOLE AND SYDNEY?
MR. KAELIN: OKAY. THAT O.J. WANTED TO SPEND TIME WITH SYDNEY AND THAT NICOLE WASN'T GOING TO GIVE HIM THE TIME TO HAVE WITH HIS DAUGHTER, TALK TO HER AT THE RECITAL, SO THEY WENT OFF.
******
MS. CLARK: OKAY. WHAT, IF ANYTHING, DID HE TELL YOU ABOUT NICOLE HERSELF AT THE RECITAL?
MR. KAELIN: ABOUT HER -- HER OUTFIT THAT SHE HAD ON.
******
MS. CLARK: WHAT REMARK DID HE MAKE -- WHAT, IF ANY, REMARK DID HE MAKE ABOUT WHAT SHE WAS WEARING THAT NIGHT?
MR. KAELIN: THAT IT WAS A TIGHT OUTFIT.
******
 MS. CLARK: DID YOU TALK AT ALL ABOUT WHAT HE WAS GOING TO BE DOING THAT EVENING?
MR. KAELIN: YES.
MS. CLARK: WHAT DID HE TELL YOU?
MR. KAELIN: THAT HE WAS GOING TO TAKE A FLIGHT OUT, HE HAD TO PACK FOR A TRIP TO CHICAGO.
******
MS. CLARK: AND SO -- AND WHAT HAPPENED NEXT?
MR. KAELIN: I GAVE HIM THE MONEY AND HE SAID HE WAS GOING TO GET A HAMBURGER AND I SAID, "CAN I GO?"
MS. CLARK: YOU INVITED YOURSELF TO GO WITH HIM?
MR. KAELIN: YES.
MS. CLARK: AND WHAT WAS HIS RESPONSE TO THAT?
MR. KAELIN: "SURE."
MS. CLARK: DID HE SEEM REAL EXCITED TO HAVE YOU COME?
MR. SHAPIRO: OBJECTION, CALLS FOR SPECULATION.
MR. KAELIN:  WOULDN'T YOU?
*****
MS. CLARK: SO DID YOU GO WITH HIM, SIR?
MR. KAELIN: YES, I DID.
******
MS. CLARK: WHO DROVE THE CAR?
MR. KAELIN:  O.J.
MS. CLARK: AND APPROXIMATELY WHAT TIME WAS IT WHEN YOU LEFT WITH HIM TO GO GET SOMETHING TO EAT?
MR. KAELIN:  APPROXIMATELY 9:10.
 
******
MS. CLARK: WHILE YOU WERE IN THE CAR ON THE WAY TO MC DONALD'S, DID YOU HAVE SOME CONVERSATION WITH THE DEFENDANT?
MR. KAELIN: YES.
MS. CLARK:  WHAT WAS THE NATURE OF THAT CONVERSATION?
MR. KAELIN:  THERE WAS SOME CONVERSATION ABOUT THE FLIGHT.
******
MS. CLARK: SO YOU GOT TO MC DONALD'S AT APPROXIMATELY WHAT TIME?
MR. KAELIN: BETWEEN NINE -- LIKE 9:22.
MS. CLARK:  AND DID YOU GO INTO THE MC DONALD'S OR DID YOU DO DRIVE-THROUGH?
MR. KAELIN:  DRIVE-THROUGH.

******
MS. CLARK:  ALL RIGHT. WHEN YOU GOT BACK TO -- WHEN YOU GOT BACK TO ROCKINGHAM, THE DEFENDANT PARKED THE CAR IN THE LOCATION YOU INDICATED ON PEOPLE'S 136, CAN YOU TELL US, SIR, WHAT HAPPENED NEXT?
MR. KAELIN:  AFTER THE MC DONALD'S?
MS. CLARK:  YES.
MR. KAELIN: UMM, I GOT OUT OF THE CAR AND I HAD MY FOOD AND I WALKED TOWARDS THE KITCHEN AND I THOUGHT I WAS KIND OF INVITING MYSELF, SO I TURNED AND I WENT TO MY ROOM.
******
MS. CLARK: DID YOU HAVE ANY CONVERSATION WITH MR. SIMPSON?
MR. KAELIN: NO.
******
MS. CLARK: WHAT HAPPENED NEXT?
MR. KAELIN:  OKAY. SO I TOOK THE FOOD AND I WALKED DOWN THE PATH TO MY ROOM AND I STARTED EATING THE FOOD AND I MADE A PHONE CALL.
*****
MS. CLARK:  OKAY. AND WHAT DID YOU DO THEN?
MR. KAELIN:  I MADE A PHONE CALL.
MS. CLARK:  AND WHAT -- AND WHAT PHONE CALL -- WHO DID YOU CALL?
MR. KAELIN:  ANOTHER FRIEND, RACHEL.
MS. CLARK:  RACHEL WHAT?
MR. KAELIN: RACHEL FERRARA.
MS. CLARK:  WHAT TIME WAS IT, APPROXIMATELY, WHEN YOU PLACED THAT CALL, SIR?
MR. KAELIN: ABOUT LIKE 10:10.
******

MS. CLARK: AND THAT DURING THAT PHONE CALL YOU WERE SEATED ON THE BED WITH YOUR BACK UP AGAINST THAT HEADBOARD?
MR. KAELIN: YES.
MS. CLARK:  DURING THAT PHONE CALL, SIR, DID SOMETHING UNUSUAL OCCUR?
MR. KAELIN: YES.
MS. CLARK:  AND WHAT WAS THAT?
MR. KAELIN: I HEARD A THUMPING NOISE.
MS. CLARK:  HOW MANY THUMPS DID YOU HEAR?
MR. SHAPIRO: OBJECTION, LEADING.
COURT: OVERRULED.
MR. KAELIN: THREE.
******
MS. CLARK: WHERE DID THAT NOISE SEEM TO BE COMING FROM?
MR. KAELIN:  FROM THE BACK OF THE WALL.
******
MS. CLARK: DID YOU NOTICE ANYTHING OCCUR IN YOUR ROOM AS A RESULT OF THOSE THUMPS ON THE WALL?
MR. KAELIN:  YES.
MS. CLARK: WHAT?
MR. KAELIN: THERE IS A PICTURE THAT MOVED.
 
MS. CLARK:  AT THAT POINT THAT YOU HEARD THE THUMPS ON THE WALL, SIR, APPROXIMATELY HOW LONG HAD YOU BEEN ON THE PHONE WITH RACHEL FERRARA?
MR. KAELIN:  ABOUT A HALF HOUR.
MS. CLARK: AND SO APPROXIMATELY WHAT TIME WAS IT WHEN YOU HEARD THE THUMPS ON THE WALL?
MR. KAELIN: AT ABOUT 10:40.
******
MS. CLARK: DO YOU RECALL PREVIOUSLY TESTIFYING THAT IT WAS 10:40 TO 10:45?
MR. KAELIN: YES.
*****
MS. CLARK: SO AT APPROXIMATELY 10:40 TO 10:45, WHEN YOU HEARD THE THUMPS AND YOU SAW THE PICTURE MOVE, WHAT DID YOU DO?
MR. KAELIN: WELL, I WAS ON THE PHONE STILL AND I WAS TALKING TO RACHEL AND I THOUGHT -- I SAID TO RACHEL -- I ASKED HER, "DID WE JUST HAVE AN EARTHQUAKE?"
MS. CLARK: DID THOSE THUMPS ALARM YOU, SIR?
MR. KAELIN: AFTER SHE SAID WE DIDN'T HAVE ONE, YES.
MS. CLARK:  AND WHY WERE YOU ALARMED?
MR. KAELIN:  WELL, IF IT WASN'T THAT, THEN I THOUGHT THERE WAS, YOU KNOW, SOMEONE BACK THERE.
******
MS. CLARK: ALL RIGHT. WHEN RACHEL TOLD YOU THAT IT WAS NOT AN EARTHQUAKE, YOU BECAME ALARMED THINKING SOMEONE WAS BACK THERE. WHAT HAPPENED NEXT?

MR. KAELIN: WELL, I WAS ON THE PHONE WITH HER AND I TOLD HER THAT I WAS GOING TO CHECK ON IT.
******
MS. CLARK: AND WHEN YOU SAY YOU WERE GOING TO GO AND CHECK ON IT, WHAT DID YOU INTEND TO DO?
MR. KAELIN: WELL, THAT -- SEE THE DRESSER RIGHT THERE NEXT TO THE BED? ON THE TOP DRAWER I HAVE LIKE A LITTLE LIGHT, FLASHLIGHT. I WAS GOING TO TAKE THAT LIGHT AND LOOK BEHIND THERE.
MS. CLARK: LOOK BEHIND WHERE?
MR. KAELIN: BEHIND THE PATH.
MS. CLARK: THE PATH THAT YOU HAVE EARLIER IDENTIFIED?
MR. KAELIN: YES.
MS. CLARK: HOW DID YOU FEEL ABOUT GOING BACK THERE ONTO THAT LITTLE PATHWAY?
MR. KAELIN: SCARED.
******
MS. CLARK:  ALL RIGHT. WHAT DID YOU SEE WHEN YOU WERE ON THAT PATH?
MR. KAELIN: ON THIS PATH?
MS. CLARK: YES.
MR. KAELIN:  NOTHING. I DIDN'T SEE ANYTHING UNTIL I GOT TO THE DRIVEWAY.
******
MS. CLARK: WHAT DID YOU SEE?
MR. KAELIN:  I SAW A LIMOUSINE.
 
******
MS. CLARK:  WHERE DID YOU GO THEN?
MR. KAELIN:  I WENT BACK OUT.
MS. CLARK:  OKAY.
MR. KAELIN: AND THE LIMO WAS STILL THERE AND I THOUGHT MAYBE I SHOULD LET THIS GUY IN, SO I WENT TO THE GATE CONTROL BOX, THERE IS A BUTTON, PRESSED AND IT OPENS UP.

******
MS. CLARK:  ALL RIGHT. WHEN THE LIMO DRIVER GOT OUT OF THE CAR, DID YOU HAVE A CONVERSATION WITH HIM?
MR. KAELIN:  YES.
MS. CLARK: WHAT DID YOU SAY?
MR. KAELIN: WELL, I KNOW I ASKED HIM ABOUT THE -- IF WE HAD AN EARTHQUAKE, AND HE SAID, "NO, NOT THAT I AM AWARE OF. I HAVE BEEN SITTING THERE AND I DIDN'T FEEL ANYTHING MOVE," AND HE HAD MENTIONED THAT HE WAS COMING UP FROM REDONDO. AND I DON'T KNOW IF I -- WHAT I REMEMBER ABOUT -- IF I MENTIONED ABOUT OVERSLEEPING OR NOT.  I SAID, "DID O.J. OVERSLEEP?" OR IF HE SAID IT, THAT HE OVERSLEPT, BUT THAT CAME UP AND I SAID, "OH, HE HAS GOT A FLIGHT TO CATCH."
******
MS. CLARK: ALL RIGHT. AND SO AFTER YOU TOLD HIM ABOUT THAT, WHAT DID YOU DO?
MR. KAELIN: WELL, I KNOW THAT AT ONE POINT ALSO THE GOLF BAG WAS OUT IN THE FRONT. I LOADED THAT FOR HIM IN THE TRUNK AND THEN I THINK I CHECKED ON THE NOISE.
******
MS. CLARK:  OKAY. NOW, ON YOUR WAY BACK TO THE LIMO, DID ANYTHING DRAW YOUR ATTENTION?
MR. KAELIN:  YES.
MS. CLARK:  WHAT?
MR. KAELIN: I SAW THAT THERE WAS LIKE A KNAPSACK THAT WAS IN THE DRIVEWAY WHERE THE ROLLS ROYCE WAS PARKED.
******
MS. CLARK: AND WHERE DID YOU SEE THIS SMALL -- THIS KNAPSACK?
MR. KAELIN: IT WAS ON THE RIGHT BACK TAILLIGHT ON THE BOTTOM RIGHT WHERE THE GRASS KIND OF WOULD START UP.
 (INDICATING), AND THE LIGHT WOULD BE OUT, BUT IT WAS STICKING OUT. WITH THIS DRAWING IT IS KIND OF -- I DON'T KNOW IF IT IS EXACT, BUT IT WAS ON THE GRASS PART OF IT, BUT MORE ON THE CEMENT.
*******
MS. CLARK: OKAY. AND HOW BIG WAS THAT KNAPSACK?
MR. KAELIN: IT WAS LIKE A COLLEGE KNAPSACK I THOUGHT.
MS. CLARK:  LIKE THE SIZE OF A BOOK BAG?
MR. KAELIN: UMM, A LITTLE -- KIND OF LIKE THAT, (INDICATING), THE BRIEFCASE -- WHATEVER THAT CASE IS THERE.
******

MS. CLARK: DID YOU SAY SOMETHING TO MR. SIMPSON ABOUT THAT DARK KNAPSACK?
MR. KAELIN: THAT I WAS GOING TO GET IT.
MS. CLARK: YOU OFFERED TO GET IT?
MR. KAELIN:  YEAH.
MS. CLARK:  AND WHAT WAS HIS RESPONSE?
MR. KAELIN:  HE WILL GET IT.
******
MS. CLARK: AND THEN WHAT DID HE DO?
MR. KAELIN: I DIDN'T PAY ATTENTION. I THINK HE GOT IT.
*******
 

 MS. CLARK: DID YOU HAPPEN TO NOTICE WHETHER HIS -- HE HAD ANY INJURY TO EITHER HAND AT THAT TIME?
MR. KAELIN:  I DIDN'T NOTICE, NO.
*******
MS. CLARK: CAN YOU, SIR, ESTIMATE FOR US ABOUT HOW MUCH TIME YOU SPENT WITH THE DEFENDANT AFTER THE LIMO DRIVER ARRIVED?
MR. KAELIN:  AFTER THE LIMO DRIVER ARRIVED? WHEN I FIRST SAW HIM?

MS. CLARK: RIGHT. FROM THE TIME YOU FIRST SAW HIM TO THE TIME HE LEFT FOR THE AIRPORT?
MR. KAELIN:  I THINK IT WAS ABOUT FIVE MINUTES.
*******
MS. CLARK: AND ABOUT WHAT TIME DID YOU GO TO SLEEP?
MR. KAELIN:  I WENT TO TURN THE LIGHT OFF ABOUT 1:30 A.M.
*******
 
MS. CLARK: NOW, AT SOME POINT, WERE YOU AWAKEN?
MR. KAELIN:  YES.
MS. CLARK: BY WHAT?
MR. KAELIN: THERE WAS A KNOCKING -- BANGING AT THE DOOR.
MS. CLARK:  AND WHO WAS AT THE DOOR?
MR. KAELIN:  UH, FOUR DETECTIVES.
 MS. CLARK: AND DO YOU RECALL WHAT TIME IT WAS WHEN THOSE FOUR DETECTIVES KNOCKED ON YOUR DOOR OR CAME TO YOUR DOOR?
MR. KAELIN: I THOUGHT IT WAS BETWEEN 5:00 AND 6:00 A.M.
 *******
MS. CLARK: WHAT HAPPENED -- AT SOME POINT, WERE YOU ASKED TO LEAVE THE PROPERTY?
MR. KAELIN:  YES, I WAS.
*****
MS. CLARK: DID YOU LEAVE ON YOUR OWN OR WERE YOU ESCORTED OUT?
MR. KAELIN:  ESCORTED OUT.
MS. CLARK: BY A POLICE OFFICER?
MR. KAELIN:  YES.
MS. CLARK: WERE YOU WARNED OF ANYTHING AS YOU WERE ESCORTED OUT OF THE PROPERTY?
MR. KAELIN: YES.
MS. CLARK: AND WHAT WAS THAT?
MR. KAELIN: THEY SAID BE CAREFUL OF THE BLOOD.
MS. CLARK:  WERE THEY POINTING TO SOME AREAS ON THE GROUND?
MR. KAELIN: WELL, THEY WERE JUST KIND OF WALKING ME, AND THEY DIDN'T POINT. THEY WERE WALKING WITH ME AND THEY SAID BE CAREFUL OF THE BLOOD, AND I LOOKED DOWN.
MS. CLARK: AND DID YOU SEE BLOOD?
MR. KAELIN: YES.
 
 ******
MS. CLARK: YOU CONSIDER YOURSELF THE DEFENDANT'S FRIEND, DON'T YOU, MR. KAELIN?
MR. KAELIN: UH, YES.
MS. CLARK: YOU DID BACK IN JANUARY OF '94?
MR. KAELIN: YES.
MS. CLARK:  YOU DID IN JUNE OF '94?
MR. KAELIN:  YES.
MS. CLARK: AND YOU STILL DO?
MR. KAELIN: I -- I'M STILL A FRIEND. I'M -- I KNOW -- I KNOW MY JOB IS TO BE A HUNDRED PERCENT HONEST, AND THAT'S WHAT I'M GOING TO DO.
******
MS. CLARK: NOW, YOU'VE BEEN ATTEMPTING TO ESTABLISH YOURSELF IN THE FIELD OF ACTING FOR HOW MANY YEARS, SIR?
MR. KAELIN:  A LONG TIME.
MS. CLARK: MORE THAN 10 YEARS?
MS. CLARK:  YES.
MS. CLARK: WOULD IT BE FAIR TO SAY THAT YOU'VE HAD MORE ACTING ROLES IN THE LAST NINE MONTHS SINCE THE MURDERS OF RON GOLDMAN AND NICOLE BROWN THAN YOU HAVE IN THE LAST 10 YEARS?
MR. KAELIN: YES.
 
******
MS. CLARK: WHAT ABOUT HIS (O.J.S) DEMEANOR WHEN HE LEFT, WAS GETTING READY TO LEAVE FOR THE AIRPORT AFTER 11:00 O'CLOCK? HOW WOULD YOU DESCRIBE IT?
MR. KAELIN: RUSHED.
******
MS. CLARK: WAS -- WAS HIS DEMEANOR AT THAT TIME UNUSUAL BASED ON WHAT YOU HAD SEEN OF HIM ON PRIOR OCCASIONS?
MR. KAELIN:  WELL, THAT'S ONE OF THE FIRST TIMES I'VE SEEN HIM LIKE LATE FOR SOMETHING LIKE A FLIGHT. SO I CAN'T COMPARE TO. BUT YEAH, HE WAS IN A HURRY AND IT WAS -- IT WAS FRAZZLED TO GET IN THE CAR.
MS. CLARK: DO YOU RECALL TELLING ANYONE THAT HE WAS MORE NERVOUS AND FRAZZLED THAN YOU HAD EVER SEEN HIM BEFORE, THAT YOU HAD NEVER SEEN HIM IN THAT CONDITION BEFORE?
MR. KAELIN: NO. I DIDN'T SAY THAT.
*******
MS. CLARK: MR. KAELIN, YOU INDICATED YESTERDAY THAT WHEN
YOU CAME BACK FROM MC DONALD'S YOU MADE A PHONE CALL TO
YOUR FRIEND TOM IN SAN DIEGO AT 9:37; IS THAT RIGHT?
MR. KAELIN: YES.
MS. CLARK: SO YOU LAST SAW THE DEFENDANT STANDING BY THE
BENTLEY AT 9:35. WAS THAT YOUR TESTIMONY?
******
MR. KAELIN: YES.
MS. CLARK: BY MS. CLARK: AT 9:35?
MR. KAELIN: IT WOULD BE, YES, TO WALK -- ABOUT 9:35, 9:36.
MS. CLARK: UH-HUH.  DID YOU SEE THE DEFENDANT AT 9:45?
MR. KAELIN: NO.
MS. CLARK: DID YOU KNOW WHERE HE WAS AT 9:45?
MR. KAELIN: NO.
MS. CLARK: DID YOU SEE THE DEFENDANT AT 9:50?
MR. KAELIN: NO.
MS. CLARK: DID YOU KNOW WHERE HE WAS AT 9:50?
MR. KAELIN:  NO.
MS. CLARK: DID YOU SEE THE DEFENDANT AT 9:55?
MR. KAELIN:  NO.
MS. CLARK: DID YOU KNOW WHERE HE WAS AT 9:55?
MR. KAELIN: NO.
MS. CLARK: DID YOU SEE THE DEFENDANT AT 10:15?
MR. KAELIN:  NO.
MS. CLARK:  DID YOU KNOW WHERE HE WAS AT 10:15?
MR. KAELIN:  NO.
MS. CLARK:  DID YOU SEE THE DEFENDANT AT 10:20?
MR. KAELIN: NO.
MS. CLARK: DID YOU KNOW WHERE HE WAS AT 10:20?
MR. KAELIN: NO.
MS. CLARK: DID YOU SEE THE DEFENDANT AT 10:30?
MR. KAELIN:  NO.
MS. CLARK: DID YOU KNOW WHERE HE WAS AT 10:30?
MR. KAELIN: NO.
MS. CLARK:  DID YOU SEE THE DEFENDANT AT 10:40?
MR. KAELIN:  NO.
MS. CLARK:  DID YOU KNOW WHERE HE WAS AT 10:40?
MR. KAELIN: NO.
MS. CLARK: DID YOU SEE THE DEFENDANT AT 10:45?
MR. KAELIN: NO.
MS. CLARK: DO YOU KNOW WHERE HE WAS AT 10:45?
MR. KAELIN: NO.
MS. CLARK: DID YOU SEE THE DEFENDANT AT 10:50?
MR. KAELIN:  NO.
MS. CLARK:  DID YOU KNOW WHERE HE WAS AT 10:50?
MR. KAELIN:  NO.

CROSS-EXAMINATION BY MR. SHAPIRO:
*******
MR. SHAPIRO: AND THAT DURING THE PERIOD OF TIME WHEN YOU
FIRST MET NICOLE, SHE WAS DIVORCED FROM O.J. SIMPSON?
MR. KAELIN: YES.
MR. SHAPIRO:  AND SHE WAS DATING OTHER MEN?
MR. KAELIN: YES.
******
MR. SHAPIRO: AND WAS HE (O.J.) AWARE THAT SHE WAS DATING OTHER MEN?
MR. KAELIN:  YES.
MR. SHAPIRO: AND DID HE EVER VOICE ANY CONCERNS ABOUT THAT?
MR. KAELIN:  NO.
MR. SHAPIRO: DID HE EVER SHOW ANY ANGER OR UPSET -- BEING
UPSET AT THE FACT THAT SHE WAS DATING OTHER MEN?
MR. KAELIN: NO.
 
******
MR. SHAPIRO: DID YOU EVER DISCUSS WITH O.J.
WHAT YOUR RELATIONSHIP WAS WITH NICOLE?
MR. KAELIN:  NO.
MR. SHAPIRO: WAS IT EVER A CONCERN OF HIS?
MR. KAELIN: NO.
******
 
MR. SHAPIRO: WERE YOU EVER PRESENT WHEN
NICOLE WOULD COME OVER AND VISIT O.J. AT HIS ROCKINGHAM
HOUSE?
MR. KAELIN: WHEN I WAS THERE?
MR. SHAPIRO: YES.
MR. KAELIN: YES.
MR. SHAPIRO: AND HOW DID THEY SEEM TO GET ALONG?
MS. CLARK: OBJECTION, SPECULATION, YOUR HONOR.
THE COURT: OVERRULED.
MR. KAELIN:  OKAY. GOOD.
******
MR. SHAPIRO: DID YOU EVER SEE ANY PHYSICAL CONTACT BETWEEN
THE TWO OF THEM?
MR. KAELIN: I -- HE DIDN'T HIT HER. THERE WAS NO PHYSICAL CONTACT?
MR. SHAPIRO: DID YOU SEE ANY PHYSICAL CONTACT AT ALL?
MR. KAELIN: NO.
MR. SHAPIRO: ANY PUSHING, SHOVING?
MR. KAELIN: NO.
 
 *******
MR. SHAPIRO:NOW, DURING THE PERIOD OF TIME IN FEBRUARY AND
MARCH 1994, WERE O.J. AND NICOLE STILL DATING AND WAS SHE
STILL TRYING TO GET BACK TOGETHER WITH HIM?
MR. KAELIN:  I DON'T KNOW FOR SURE. IT WAS OFF AND ON, SO
IT COULD HAVE BEEN.
MR. SHAPIRO:AT SOME POINT IN TIME DID YOU LEARN THAT O.J.
HAD SAID THAT IT WASN'T WORKING OUT WITH NICOLE AND THAT
THEY WERE GOING TO GO THEIR OWN SEPARATE WAYS?
MR. KAELIN: AT SOME POINT, YES.
MR. SHAPIRO: DO YOU RECALL PRECISELY WHEN THAT WAS?
MR. KAELIN:  GOSH, PRECISELY? NOT PRECISELY, BUT -- IT
COULD HAVE BEEN MARCH, BUT I CAN'T GIVE YOU A DATE.
******
MR. SHAPIRO: NOW, YOUR RELATIONSHIP WITH O.J. YOU SAID WAS
AS A FRIEND.WERE YOU PART OF HIS DAY-TO-DAY LIFE?
MR. KAELIN:  NO.
MR. SHAPIRO: WOULD YOU TALK TO HIM ON A DAY-TO-DAY BASIS?
MR. KAELIN: NO.
MR. SHAPIRO: DID YOU KNOW HIS COMINGS AND GOINGS?
MR. KAELIN:  NO.

******

MR. SHAPIRO: SO YOU WOULDN'T BE GENERALLY AWARE AT ANY POINT
IN TIME WHERE HE WAS OR WHAT HE WAS DOING?
MR. KAELIN: CORRECT.
******
MR. SHAPIRO:HOW WAS HE -- WHAT WAS HIS DEMEANOR LIKE AT
2:30 (ON JUNE 12TH)?
MR. KAELIN: HE WAS FINE.
MR. SHAPIRO: WHEN YOU SAY "FINE"
MR. KAELIN: HE WAS
MR. SHAPIRO: NORMAL O.J.?
MR. KAELIN: GOT DONE GOLFING, LIKE YOU ARE NOW, I GUESS.
I GUESS NORMAL CONVERSATION.
MR. SHAPIRO: HE DIDN'T SEEM ANGRY?
MR. KAELIN:  NO.
MR. SHAPIRO: DIDN'T SEEM AGITATED?
MR. KAELIN: NO.
MR. SHAPIRO: HE DIDN'T SEEM DEPRESSED?
MR. KAELIN: NO.
MR. SHAPIRO: DIDN'T SEEM DESPONDENT?
MR. KAELIN:  NO.
MR. SHAPIRO: DIDN'T SEEM PREOCCUPIED?
MR. KAELIN: NO. I THINK HE MENTIONED THE TRIP WAS COMING
UP.
*******
MR. SHAPIRO: AND THEN YOU SAW HIM A LITTLE LATER THAT
EVENING?
MR. KAELIN: YES.
MR. SHAPIRO: ABOUT WHAT TIME?
MR. KAELIN: UMM, ABOUT 8:30, AROUND THERE, WHEN HE CAME
INTO THE ROOM.
******
MR. SHAPIRO: DID HE SEEM AGITATED AT THAT TIME?
MR. KAELIN: NO.
MR. SHAPIRO: DID HE SEEM ANGRY?
MR. KAELIN: NO.
******
MR. SHAPIRO: DID HE TALK ABOUT ANYTHING THAT WAS BOTHERING
HIM?
MR. KAELIN: NO.
 *******
MR. SHAPIRO: DID HE TALK ABOUT ANY ANGER HE HAD TOWARDS
ANYONE?
MR. KAELIN: NO.
MR. SHAPIRO: AND THEN THERE WAS A DISCUSSION ABOUT GOING TO
GET A HAMBURGER?
MR. KAELIN: YES.
MR. SHAPIRO: AND YOU INVITED YOURSELF TO GO ALONG?
 MR. KAELIN: YES, I DID.
MR. SHAPIRO: AND HE HAD NO PROBLEM WITH THAT?
MR. KAELIN: NO.
******
MR. SHAPIRO: DID HE SAY "I WOULD RATHER BE
ALONE"?
MR. KAELIN: NO.
******
MR. SHAPIRO: WHEN YOU PICKED UP THE GOLF BAG WITH THE CLUBS
IN IT, DID YOU SEE ANY BLOOD AT THE FRONT OF THE DRIVEWAY AT 11:00 O'CLOCK?
MR. KAELIN:  NO.
MR. SHAPIRO:DID YOU SEE ANY BLOOD WALKING TO THE LIMOUSINE?
MR. KAELIN: NO.
MR. SHAPIRO:DID YOU SEE ANY BLOOD ANYWHERE AT 11:00 O'CLOCK
THAT NIGHT?
MR. KAELIN: NO.
MR. SHAPIRO:AND IT WASN'T UNTIL THE POLICE OFFICERS THE
NEXT MORNING TOLD YOU TO BE CAREFUL WHERE YOU WALKED THAT
YOUR ATTENTION WAS DIRECTED TOWARDS ANY BLOOD; ISN'T THAT
CORRECT?
MR. KAELIN: CORRECT.
MR. SHAPIRO:AND IT WAS DIRECTED BY THEM. YOU DIDN'T SEE
THIS ON YOUR OWN, DID YOU?
MR. KAELIN:  NO.
******
MR. SHAPIRO: AT 11:00 O'CLOCK, WHEN YOU LAST SAW O.J.
SIMPSON, DID YOU SEE ANY INJURY TO HIS INDEX FINGER ON HIS
LEFT HAND?
MR. KAELIN:  NO.
MR. SHAPIRO: DID YOU SEE ANY BLEEDING ON HIS INDEX FINGER TO HIS LAST -- LEFT HAND?
 MR. KAELIN: NO.
MR. SHAPIRO: DID YOU SEE ANY BANDAGE ON HIS INDEX FINGER TO
HIS LEFT HAND?
MR. KAELIN: NO.
******
REDIRECT EXAMINATION BY MS. CLARK
******
MS. CLARK: AND DID YOU SPEND -- DID YOU MAKE ANY EFFORT TO
OBSERVE THE DEFENDANT'S HANDS AS HE WAS GETTING READY TO
LEAVE FOR THE AIRPORT IN THE LIMOUSINE?
MR. KAELIN: NO.
MS. CLARK: HOW MUCH TIME DID YOU SPEND WITH THE DEFENDANT
FROM THE MOMENT YOU SAW HIM BY THE LIMOUSINE UNTIL HE LEFT
FOR THE AIRPORT?
MR. KAELIN: BRIEF. FROM THE TIME THAT HE -- SAY THE
QUESTION AGAIN?
MS. CLARK: FROM THE TIME YOU SAW HIM STANDING NEAR THE
LIMOUSINE UNTIL THE TIME HE LEFT FOR THE AIRPORT, HOW MUCH
TIME ELAPSED BETWEEN THOSE TWO POINTS?
MR. KAELIN: TOTAL, ABOUT FIVE MINUTES.
MS CLARK: AND DURING THAT FIVE MINUTES, WHAT WAS ON YOUR
MIND, FOREMOST ON YOUR MIND?
MR. KAELIN: THE NOISE THAT I HAD HEARD.
MS. CLARK: WERE YOU MAKING ANY EFFORT TO CAREFULLY OBSERVE
THE DEFENDANT'S HANDS?
MR. KAELIN: NO.****
 

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