DIRECT EXAMINATION BY MR. COCHRAN

MR. COCHRAN: Good afternoon, Miss Pilnak.

MS. PILNAK: Good afternoon.

MR. COCHRAN: Miss Pilnak, do you presently reside in the 900 block of south Bundy? I won't give your exact address.

MS. PILNAK: Yes.

MR. COCHRAN: And back in the month of June of 1994, did you live in the 900 block of south Bundy?

MS. PILNAK: Yes.

MR. COCHRAN: What line of work are you generally in, Miss Pilnak?

MS. PILNAK: I've been in the high tech publishing business for about the last 10 years.

MR. COCHRAN: All right. Now, I'd like to direct your attention back to the date of June 12th of 1994. Do you recall that particular day?

MS. PILNAK: Yes, I do.

MR. COCHRAN: And was that a Sunday?

MR. COCHRAN: Now, with regard to that date, June 12th, 1994, do you know the various things you did on that particular date?

MS. PILNAK: Yes, I do. . . .

MR. COCHRAN: Did you know who Miss Nicole Brown Simpson was?

MS. PILNAK: Yes, I did.

MR. COCHRAN: And you knew where she lived prior to June 12th, 1994?

MS. PILNAK: No, I didn't.

MR. COCHRAN: How did you know who she was before that?

MS. PILNAK: I used to see her running with her girlfriend Cora several times a week. But I just knew her--just living in
Brentwood, you know everyone.

MR. COCHRAN: All right. And you've lived in Brentwood for a period of time, have you?

MS. PILNAK: Yes, I have. . . .

MR. COCHRAN: All right. Now, with regard to the times that evening, what time did you finish dinner at Louise's, if you know and what time did you arrive back home?

MS. PILNAK: Umm, we finished dinner sometime around--close to 9:30 and got home just a couple minutes after. It only takes about 3 minutes.

MR. COCHRAN: To get home from Louise's?

MS. PILNAK: Yes. . . .

MR. COCHRAN: All right. Now, you then returned home. Did you return home in the company of anyone else?

MS. PILNAK: Yes.

MR. COCHRAN: And who was that?

MS. PILNAK: My girlfriend was over, Judy Telander. She had joined us for dinner. She had been over all day.

MR. COCHRAN: So how many people went to dinner? Four?

MS. PILNAK: Four.

MR. COCHRAN: It was Judy Telander, yourself, your mom and--

MS. PILNAK: And her husband Nick.

MR. COCHRAN: Nick. All right. Now, at some point after you returned home from dinner with Judy Telander, did your mom and Nick have occasion to leave your residence on the 900 block of south Bundy?

MS. PILNAK: Yes, they did.

MR. COCHRAN: Can you tell the jury and--the Court and jury about what time they left your residence that evening?

MS. PILNAK: Umm, when they came back, they just came in for about five minutes. So it was around 9:45 to 10 to 10:00.

MR. COCHRAN: And they were going someplace at that time?

MS. PILNAK: They were staying at my sister's house in Torrance. So they were driving back to her home.

MR. COCHRAN: Okay. Now, after they left, did you have occasion to see what time it was after that as you looked
toward obtaining some messages from your machine?

MS. PILNAK: Umm, I did look at the clock because my girlfriend had been over all day using my computer.

MR. COCHRAN: And again, now, what girlfriend are we talking about?

MS. PILNAK: Judy Telander.

MR. COCHRAN: Okay. What time was that that you looked at the clock?

MS. PILNAK: 10:18.

MR. COCHRAN: Thank you. Now, you were about to tell us that your friend, Judy Telander, had been over pretty much all day using your computer. And so you had occasion to look at a clock or something to determine the time, and it was 10:18?

MS. PILNAK: Yes.

MR. COCHRAN: Okay. What happened at 10:18, please?

MS. PILNAK: Umm, Judy had been over all day and I noticed the digital time. I said--I said to her, "Judy, it's 10:18.
You've been here all day and I'm going out of town in a couple days. You're going to have to leave." So--

MR. COCHRAN: Well, you said--let's see now. You said that she's a friend, right?

MS. PILNAK: She's a friend.

MR. COCHRAN: You said that in a nice way?

MS. PILNAK: In a nice way.

MR. COCHRAN: All right. So you said that, "You have to leave now," or, "It's time to go home," right?

MS. PILNAK: Yeah. Well, "It's time to go home," and I said, "Let's just print out your report and you can look at it tomorrow, and any changes, I'd be happy to make tomorrow."

MR. COCHRAN: All right.

MS. PILNAK: But I had things I had to get done.

MR. COCHRAN: Okay. I understand. Did you at that time assist her in printing out anything for her before she left?

MS. PILNAK: Yes.

MR. COCHRAN: What did you print out for Judy Telander?

MS. PILNAK: I printed out a letter that she had been working on all day, and actually it's two pages and then about two lines on the third page. And I printed out two copies. I wasn't sure if it was one or two. I think it was two.

MR. COCHRAN: All right. Did you give that to her?

MS. PILNAK: Yes, I did.

MR. COCHRAN: All right. And so you parted company at about what time?

MS. PILNAK: 10:21.

MR. COCHRAN: All right. And again, you're pretty sure about that time?

MS. PILNAK: Well, I retimed everything. My little speech to her took about 45 seconds and the printing out was a minute and 25 seconds for each three-page copy. So that's--that's right about 3 minutes.

MR. COCHRAN: All right. So after the fact, you went back and redid these things yourself; is that right?

MS. PILNAK: Uh-huh. Uh-huh.

MR. COCHRAN: Uh-huh means yes?

MS. PILNAK: Yes. I'm sorry.

MR. COCHRAN: Okay. All right. So how did you--did you escort her out or tell us what you did when Judy Telander was leaving?

MS. PILNAK: Whenever my girlfriends leave my home, I always turn off the porch light, stand on the porch, watch until they get in their car and take off. Then I make them call me when they get home just so we know they're safe. . . .

MR. COCHRAN: Now, when you walked out and you're out on the porch with Judy Telander, can you describe for the jury the condition of Bundy drive that particular night, that Sunday evening?

MS. PILNAK: That Sunday evening, it was exceptionally quiet. As long as I've lived in that home, I never remember a night when it was absolutely still. There wasn't a sound to be heard.

MR. COCHRAN: All right. Now, what time is this that it's exceptionally quiet?

MS. PILNAK: It was about--Judy and I were outside talking probably between 10:21 and about 10:25.

MR. COCHRAN: During that time, you were out on your porch; is that correct?

MS. PILNAK: Yes.

MR. COCHRAN: And how long had you lived at that location at that point?

MS. PILNAK: Umm, four years.

MR. COCHRAN: So in the four years you lived there, you had never heard Bundy so quiet; is that right?

MS. PILNAK: Yes. . . .

MR. COCHRAN: And so your porch is there where you and Judy Telander stood before she left; is that correct?

MS. PILNAK: Yes.

MR. COCHRAN: Okay. And at that time, it was about 10:25 P.M. on June 12th, 1994, right?

MS. PILNAK: Yes.

MR. COCHRAN: And it was quieter than you could ever remember it; is that correct?

MS. PILNAK: Yes.

MR. COCHRAN: Do you remember seeing any people walking around at that point?

MS. PILNAK: No.

MR. COCHRAN: See people walking? Do you remember seeing anybody walking dogs at that point?

MS. PILNAK: No.

MR. COCHRAN: Do you remember hearing any dogs barking at that point at 10:25?

MS. PILNAK: No.

MR. COCHRAN: All right. Now, after you saw Judy Telander off, did you have occasion to come back in and do something at that time at about 10:25 P.M.?

MS. PILNAK: Umm, the minute Judy left, I picked up the telephone and called my mother to make sure she got home safely. . . .

MR. COCHRAN: As I understand your testimony, your mom and Nick had left at something like 9:45 to 9:50; is that correct?

MS. PILNAK: Yes.

MR. COCHRAN: And after Judy Telander left, you then called your mom at some location; is that correct?

MS. PILNAK: Yes.

MR. COCHRAN: Okay. And what time was it that you called your mother?

MS. PILNAK: 10:25. . . .

MR. COCHRAN: You talked to her for about three minutes, did you?

MS. PILNAK: Yes.

MR. COCHRAN: All right. Now, these--you have a habit about collecting reading materials and keeping papers until you
throw them away?

MS. PILNAK: I don't throw anything away until I've read it.

MR. COCHRAN: All right. So you collected up--what did you do? You collected up a number of papers and things?

MS. PILNAK: Yes.

MR. COCHRAN: All right. And ultimately, you took those things and gathered them up and you took them someplace in
your house?

MS. PILNAK: Yes. Into my bedroom because I--

MR. COCHRAN: All right. Now, up to that time, ma'am, up to the time that you picked these newspapers up and you brushed your teeth and flossed and everything, had you heard any loud dogs barking at that time?

MS. PILNAK: No.

MR. COCHRAN: It was still very quiet out?

MS. PILNAK: I wasn't outside, but it was--I didn't hear any noises from outside.

MR. COCHRAN: You couldn't hear anything from inside; is that correct?

MS. PILNAK: Correct.

MR. COCHRAN: When you had been out on your porch and Judy Telander had left, it had been very, very quiet?

MS. PILNAK: Extremely quiet.

MR. COCHRAN: All right. Now, at some point thereafter, did you hear a dog or dogs start barking?

MS. PILNAK: When I went back into the bathroom, I was drying my hands and I heard a dog barking.

MR. COCHRAN: All right. And to the best of your recollection, what time was that that you heard this dog barking at that
point, your best recollection?

MS. PILNAK: About 10:35.

MR. COCHRAN: All right. Nearest you can tell, that was the earliest it was?

MS. PILNAK: It could be 10:33 because I've retimed those activities.

MR. COCHRAN: All right. Between 10:30, 10:35; is that correct?

MS. PILNAK: Yes.

MR. COCHRAN: All right. And you never came outside to check that dog, did you?

MS. PILNAK: No.

MR. COCHRAN: All right. You just heard the dog barking?

MS. PILNAK: Yes.

MR. COCHRAN: And did they--did you hear this sound of barking, did it continue for a period of time?

MS. PILNAK: It continued for a long time.

MR. COCHRAN: All right. Do you recall what time you went to sleep that night?

MS. PILNAK: Yes.

MR. COCHRAN: What time did you approximately fall off to sleep?

MS. PILNAK: Well, I closed the lights off at 12:30 A.M.

MR. COCHRAN: All right. You closed the lights off at 12:30. How soon after that did you go to sleep, if you know?

MS. PILNAK: Probably right afterward.

MR. COCHRAN: All right. And at some point, did the dog--this dog stop barking?

MS. PILNAK: Yes.

MR. COCHRAN: All right. Were you able to tell whether or not during that time frame of about 10:35 until you turned the lights off at 12:30, you ever heard more than one dog barking?

MS. PILNAK: I'm not sure. I heard one continuous bark for a very long time.

MR. COCHRAN: All right. You can't tell us whether or not it was one dog or a different dog or whatever, but you heard a continuous bark; is that correct?

MS. PILNAK: Yes.

MR. COCHRAN: All right. And so when you finally got ready to fall asleep, did the dog--did the barking stop at some
point?

MS. PILNAK: The barking had stopped.

MR. COCHRAN: And that would have been at about 12:30 the barking stopped?

MS. PILNAK: No. It had stopped before then.

MR. COCHRAN: Okay. Do you know when it had stopped approximately?

MS. PILNAK: Approximately--it was a long time. I would have guessed that it--from the time it started barking, it had to be about 45 minutes or so. But I don't know precisely.

MR. COCHRAN: All right. You didn't write anything down about that, did you?

MS. PILNAK: No. That I didn't.

MR. COCHRAN: All right. Now, with regard to the time of 10:15, at which time you've indicated you were still in your house, did you hear a dog barking at all at that time?

MS. PILNAK: No.

MR. COCHRAN: And when you came out on that porch with Judy Telander--and that was I think you've told us between 10:21 and 10:25--you didn't hear any dogs barking at that time, did you?

MS. PILNAK: No. We commented on how quiet it was.

MR. COCHRAN: When you say "We," you're talking about you and Judy?

MS. PILNAK: Judy and I commented.

MR. COCHRAN: Now, in connection with this, do you know and are you acquainted with a man by the name of Pablo Fenjves?

MS. PILNAK: Yes, I am.

MR. COCHRAN: And how do you know who he is?

MS. PILNAK: He's another San Vicente runner.

MR. COCHRAN: All right. He's a person that runs in that general area with you?

MS. PILNAK: Yes.

MR. COCHRAN: And did you have occasion to see him a short time after he testified in this trial, in this case?

MS. PILNAK: I saw him the following day after the preliminary hearing.

MR. COCHRAN: All right. Had he testified at the preliminary hearing?

MS. PILNAK: Yes.

MR. COCHRAN: And with regard to his testimony, did you have a conversation with him?

MS. PILNAK: Yes, I did.

MR. COCHRAN: Did that conversation concern the time that the dog started barking on that particular night?

MS. PILNAK: Yes. . . .

MR. COCHRAN: Did you agree with him as to what time the dog start barking that night?

MS. PILNAK: No.

MS. CLARK: Objection. Argumentative, irrelevant.

THE COURT: Overruled.

MR. COCHRAN: Can I get your answer?

THE COURT: She said no.

MR. COCHRAN: And did you talk to him about that?

MS. PILNAK: Yes.

MR. COCHRAN: And where did that conversation take place?

MS. PILNAK: Umm, in front of his condominium. I was coming back from a run.

MR. COCHRAN: And how long did that conversation last?

MS. PILNAK: Probably about 10 minutes, 5 or 10 minutes.

MR. COCHRAN: And did he participate in the conversation at all?

MS. PILNAK: Yes.

MR. COCHRAN: When was the last time you saw Mr. Pablo Fenjves?

MS. PILNAK: This morning at 8:06 A.M.

MR. COCHRAN: Did you have occasion at that time to talk about the same subject again just generally?

MS. PILNAK: Yes.

MR. COCHRAN: About the time the dogs started barking back then?

MS. PILNAK: Yes.

MR. COCHRAN: Is there anything he said to you at any time change your mind as to what time you heard the dogs start barking?

MS. PILNAK: No. . . .

MR. COCHRAN: When you came out of the house on that Monday morning, did you see anything unusual in and about Bundy in that location?

MS. PILNAK: Yes. There was yellow tape all around the crime area.

MR. COCHRAN: All right. And what time was that you made that observation?

MS. PILNAK: It's right about 8:30.

MR. COCHRAN: Had you been aware of anything prior to that time at all?
MS. PILNAK: No.

MR. COCHRAN: And when you saw this yellow tape, you didn't have any idea what had happened, what had taken place, did you?

MS. PILNAK: No.

MR. COCHRAN: Did you then go on a run?

MS. PILNAK: I did, but after I asked about what was happening in the neighborhood.

MR. COCHRAN: All right. You inquired about what was going on, right?

MS. PILNAK: Yes.

MR. COCHRAN: All right. And did you ascertain or find out that there had been some murders in your neighborhood?

MS. PILNAK: Yes. I was told there was a double homicide.

MR. COCHRAN: At that time, you didn't know who was involved, did you?

MS. PILNAK: No.

MR. COCHRAN: You then went on your run?

MS. PILNAK: Yes.

MR. COCHRAN: And at some point, you returned and came back from your run; is that correct?

MS. PILNAK: Yes.

MR. COCHRAN: Do you recall approximately what time it was that you got back?

MS. PILNAK: Umm, probably about 10:00 o'clock or a little bit before 10:00.

MR. COCHRAN: All right. And after you got back home after a little bit before 10:00 o'clock on Monday morning, June
13th, did you have occasion to talk to one or two police officers at some point?

MS. PILNAK: Yes.

MR. COCHRAN: And at that time, were you--was--did you become aware of who one of the victims was of the
homicide?

MS. PILNAK: It was prior to them coming over.

MR. COCHRAN: Before that?

MS. PILNAK: Yes.

MR. COCHRAN: And you became aware that Miss Nicole Brown Simpson was one of the victims?

MS. PILNAK: Yes.

MR. COCHRAN: And that was very upsetting to you; was it not?

MS. PILNAK: Very upsetting.

MR. COCHRAN: And when you talked to the police--had they--did they come to your home?

MS. PILNAK: Yes.

MR. COCHRAN: And it was a short time after you returned from your run and after you had found out that Nicole Brown Simpson had been one of the victims of the homicide; is that right?

MS. PILNAK: Yes. . . .

MR. COCHRAN: When you talked to the police, did you talk at all about dogs barking?

MS. PILNAK: Yes.

MR. COCHRAN: Do you recall what you said at that time to the police, if anything?

MS. PILNAK: Well, because of what had happened, I was in shock and I--they asked me about what time I thought I heard the dogs barking, and I remember saying something around 11:00, 11:30.

MR. COCHRAN: All right. Was that accurate?

MS. PILNAK: No.

MR. COCHRAN: All right. Did you at some time later determine that wasn't accurate?

MS. PILNAK: Yes. Later that day.

MR. COCHRAN: All right. And how did you make that determination?

MS. PILNAK: Well, I--I just thought back about the events of the night, what had happened, and it was very easy to figure, you know, exactly what time I heard the dogs barking.

MR. COCHRAN: All right. So before that date was out, before June 13th, 1994, were you aware that 11:00 or 11:30 was not a correct time?

MS. PILNAK: Yes. . . .

MR. COCHRAN: At some point later in time, did you ever at any point send a correcting fax or letter to any detectives in this case?

MS. PILNAK: Yes, I did.

MR. COCHRAN: And when you did that, when was that approximately? Was that--do you know when that was?

MS. PILNAK: It was the day the trial began.

MR. COCHRAN: All right. The day this trial began; is that correct?

MS. PILNAK: Yes.

MR. COCHRAN: And at that time, you sent--what did you do?

MS. PILNAK: Umm, I called the District Attorney's office and I believe I ended up speaking with Detective Vannatter.

MR. COCHRAN: All right.

MS. PILNAK: After making several calls, you know, just to get to the right person.

MR. COCHRAN: All right. And after you talked to Detective Vannatter, did you--

MS. PILNAK: I faxed him an itinerary of that day.

MR. COCHRAN: All right. You faxed him an itinerary of everything you did that day?

MS. PILNAK: Yes.

MR. COCHRAN: The date of June 12th, 1994?

MS. PILNAK: Yes.

MR. COCHRAN: Spelling out all the things we've talked about here and some others that aren't--we haven't talked about?

MS. PILNAK: Yes.

MR. COCHRAN: And did you tell him at that time what time the dogs--the dog had started barking on June 12th in the evening hours?

MS. PILNAK: Yes, I did.

MR. COCHRAN: And what time was that, Miss Pilnak?

MS. PILNAK: About 10:35.

MR. COCHRAN: Are you sure about that?

MS. PILNAK: Again, it could be between 10:33 and 10:35. Yes.

MR. COCHRAN: But you're sure about that?

MS. PILNAK: Yes.

MR. COCHRAN: And you have come here today pursuant to a subpoena to testify; is that correct?

MS. PILNAK: Yes.

MR. COCHRAN: And have you told us the truth here today about your testimony?

MS. PILNAK: Yes, I have.

MR. COCHRAN: You're not here to prefer one side or the other, are you?

MS. PILNAK: No. Just justice.

MR. COCHRAN: Just what?

MS. PILNAK: Justice.

MR. COCHRAN: Thank you very kindly. Nothing further at this point, your Honor.

THE COURT: People. Miss Clark.

MS. CLARK: Thank you.
 

CROSS-EXAMINATION BY MS. CLARK

MS. CLARK: Miss Pilnak, you're a stickler for time, are you?

MS. PILNAK: Yes, I am.

MS. CLARK: And you wear two watches; is that right?

MS. PILNAK: Not always. If I'm in a rush, you know, to the airport or I have to be someplace. I have lots of clocks in my home.

MS. CLARK: Uh-huh. And when the police officers contacted you on the morning of June the 13th, you knew that they were talking--coming to talk to you about a murder investigation, correct?

MS. PILNAK: Yes, I did.

MS. CLARK: And you knew that one of the victims was Nicole Brown, correct?

MS. PILNAK: I had just found out.

MS. CLARK: You didn't know her, did you?

MS. PILNAK: No, other than in passing, when you see someone, you know, four or five times a week for six months.

MS. CLARK: You saw her in the neighborhood; is that right?

MS. PILNAK: I saw her on San Vicente Boulevard.

MS. CLARK: You didn't go to her house?

MS. PILNAK: No.

MS. CLARK: She didn't go to your house?

MS. PILNAK: No.

MS. CLARK: She was not a personal friend of yours?

MS. PILNAK: No.

MS. CLARK: All right. So you knew that they were talking about a murder investigation on the morning of June the 13th, correct?

MS. PILNAK: Yes.

MS. CLARK: That's pretty important, isn't it?

MS. PILNAK: Yes, it is.

MS. CLARK: And you knew that what you said to the police officer would be important, didn't you?

MS. PILNAK: Yes.

MS. CLARK: And so you were trying to be careful to tell them accurately whatever information you had, weren't you?

MS. PILNAK: Yes. But I was in shock. I had just found this out minutes before they walked in. . . .

MS. CLARK: All right. Can you answer this? You were talking to the police officers. You knew that your answers to their questions would be important, correct?

MS. PILNAK: I was in shock. I guess so, but I was in--I was in shock when they came over.

MS. CLARK: There would be an objection as nonresponsive for everything except "I guess so."

THE COURT: Sustained.

MS. CLARK: Motion to strike.

THE COURT: The jury is to disregard the last portion of the answer. Proceed.

MS. CLARK: So you guess so, that it was important to give them the correct answers, but you didn't, did you, at least according to your testimony today?

MS. PILNAK: At that moment in time, because of the way that I--the way I was feeling, it was the best of my recollection. I had just come in my house minutes before. I had just found out that Nicole was murdered.

MS. CLARK: Be another objection as nonresponsive, your Honor. Motion to strike.

THE COURT: Overruled.

MS. CLARK: Now, Miss Pilnak, you've given several interviews to the press since this case occurred; did you not?

MS. PILNAK: Living on Bundy, I've had cameras in front of my face. Yes.

MS. CLARK: And you've spoken on television regarding your observations in this case, correct?

MS. PILNAK: I believe I have.

MS. CLARK: And as a matter of fact, you were interviewed on June the 13th outside the Bundy condo; isn't that right?

MS. PILNAK: I think so, yes.

MS. CLARK: And on June the 14th, you were interviewed in front of Rockingham, weren't you?

MS. PILNAK: Yes.

MS. CLARK: You don't live in Rockingham, do you?

MS. PILNAK: No. But I run there every Monday and Tuesday.

MS. CLARK: And so when you were running there on June the 14th, that was on Tuesday, you were interviewed again, correct?

MS. PILNAK: I guess so, yes.

MS. CLARK: And you told the press that--also the same thing you told the police officers, that you heard dogs barking at around shortly before midnight; isn't that correct?

MS. PILNAK: If you say so.

MS. CLARK: Do you recall talking to the press about what time you heard dogs barking?

MS. PILNAK: Uh, I believe I do.

MS. CLARK: And do you recall talking to them on June the 14th in front of Rockingham?

MR. COCHRAN: May I approach, your Honor?

THE COURT: No. Miss Clark, yes.

MS. CLARK: Do you recall talking to a reporter for a newspaper called the Atlanta Constitution on June the 14th, 1994?

MS. PILNAK: I don't recall that particular person.

MS. CLARK: But you recall talking to reporters on that date, correct?

MS. PILNAK: I believe so.

MS. CLARK: And you recall telling those reporters or at least one of those reporters that you remember hearing dogs barking shortly before midnight?

MS. PILNAK: I believe so.

MS. CLARK: And were you still in shock on June the 14th, Miss Pilnak?

MS. PILNAK: Well, I think for a few days I was in shock.

MS. CLARK: Were your memory--you had a memory of the events at the time that you were speaking--strike that. Would you say that your memory of what occurred on the evening of June the 12th was better on June the 13th or better on January the 25th, 1995?

MS. PILNAK: Probably January.

MS. CLARK: Your memory was better seven months later; is that right, ma'am?

MS. PILNAK: Well, if I have to choose between the two dates. . . .

MR. COCHRAN: Does your memory fade with time, Miss Pilnak, or get sharper?

MS. PILNAK: Well, when I write things down, it doesn't fade. I can always go back and look at what I wrote down. . . .

MS. CLARK: On June the 14th, you were in shock, and you took a run up to Rockingham?

MS. PILNAK: I run every day.

MS. CLARK: Even when you're in shock?

MS. PILNAK: Well, what I mean is, I was--I mean, this--this is a quiet neighborhood and I was shocked by what had happened. Of course. I run every day. It doesn't mean that I can't function.

MS. CLARK: Right. It was a shocking event, correct?

MS. PILNAK: Very shocking.

MS. CLARK: That doesn't mean that you are medically in shock, correct?

MS. PILNAK: That's correct.

MS. CLARK: Showing you a report that's been marked as People's 497? 8.

THE COURT: 498.

MS. CLARK: 498.

THE COURT: What's the date on that report, Miss Clark?

MS. CLARK: Date on the report is June 14th.

THE COURT: Thank you.

MS. CLARK: Do you see your name on this report?

MS. PILNAK: Yes, I do.

MS. CLARK: And is that your name?

MS. PILNAK: Can I say something? It's incorrectly spelled.

MS. CLARK: Right. They have an "M" instead of an "N" in your name?

MS. PILNAK: Yes.

MS. CLARK: All right. But the address on this is correct; is that right?

MS. PILNAK: Yes.

MS. CLARK: That's your address?

MS. PILNAK: Yes.

MS. CLARK: And you spoke to the police officers on June the 13th, 1994, correct?

MS. PILNAK: Yes.

MS. CLARK: And what time was it when you spoke to them?

MS. PILNAK: Around 10:15 in the morning.

MS. CLARK: And is that--I believe you indicated on direct that it was about 10:00 o'clock when you spoke to them? Didn't you indicate to that?

MR. COCHRAN: I object to that. Misstates the evidence, your Honor.

THE COURT: Overruled.

MS. PILNAK: 10:00, 10:15. I did not look at my watch when they came in.

MS. CLARK: So you can't be precise about that time?

MS. PILNAK: No. Not that time.

MS. CLARK: Pardon?

MS. PILNAK: No.

MS. CLARK: And even though you were in a shocked condition, that did not prevent you from speaking to the reporters
on camera on June the 13th and June the 14th, correct?

MR. COCHRAN: Object to the form of that question. Argumentative.

THE COURT: Overruled. But I think we've already asked that question.

MS. CLARK: Okay. Can she answer this one?

THE COURT: We've already asked the question.

MS. CLARK: All right. So you recall looking at your watch when you asked Mr.--Miss Telander--

MS. PILNAK: Yes.

MS. CLARK: You recall looking at your watch when you asked her to leave, correct?

MS. PILNAK: Yes.

MS. CLARK: But you did not look at your watch when the officers came to interrogate you about a murder investigation?

MR. COCHRAN: Asked and answered, your Honor.

THE COURT: Sustained.

MS. CLARK: Showing you People's 498. All right. I've folded down the identifying information on your--on the police
report. This is the report I just showed you, correct?

MS. PILNAK: Yes.

MS. CLARK: And the statement says that you indicated you heard dogs barking on the night of June the 12th at about 11:30 P.M., correct?

MS. PILNAK: Yes.

MS. CLARK: And you--that's the truth. That is what you told them on that date?

MS. PILNAK: That is what I told them on that date.

MS. CLARK: All right. And after you spoke to the police on June the 13th, you spoke to the press on June the 13th and 14th and then your next contact with the police was on January 25th, 1995, correct?

MS. PILNAK: That's correct.

MS. CLARK: And that was after you had seen the opening statements; is that correct?

MS. PILNAK: That's correct.

MS. CLARK: And on January the 25th, 1995, you typed out this itinerary of what you did that day, correct?

MS. PILNAK: Yes.

MS. CLARK: And I'm going to show you the first page of that and ask if you recognize--

MR. COCHRAN: Yes. I'll approach. I've seen that, yes.

THE COURT: All right.

MS. CLARK: And is that an accurate copy of the itinerary you typed out on January 25th, 1995?

MS. PILNAK: That is what I typed, but there were some changes made since then.

MS. CLARK: And have you furnished those changes to the Prosecution or to the police?

MS. PILNAK: Umm, I told the police and I furnished them also to the Defense.

MS. CLARK: Okay. You told the police that it could have been 10:33 and not 10:35 as you indicated in your itinerary back--that you typed in January of 1995?

MS. PILNAK: Yes.

MS. CLARK: And did you indicate to anyone that the dog might have been barking earlier, but you hadn't heard it?

MR. COCHRAN: Assumes facts not in evidence, your Honor.

THE COURT: Overruled.

MS. PILNAK: Yes. . . .

MS. CLARK: Miss Pilnak, let me ask you something. When you were out on the porch, you were there for what period of time?

MS. PILNAK: About three or four minutes.

MS. CLARK: Okay. And you went out there at 10:21?

MS. PILNAK: Approximately 10:21.

MS. CLARK: Could be 10:22?

MS. PILNAK: It could be 10:22.

MS. CLARK: All right. And when you were out there on the porch--or 10:20 by the way?

MS. PILNAK: It wasn't 10:20 because it--by the time I said what I did to my girlfriend and printed out the report, it's three minutes.

MS. CLARK: Okay. And you--you were standing on the porch for approximately four minutes?

MS. PILNAK: Three to four minutes, yes.

MS. CLARK: While you were standing out on that porch, did you see a young couple, a boy and a girl, walking
southbound on Bundy?

MS. PILNAK: No.

MS. CLARK: Did you see a girl wearing light colored pants and a beige--

THE COURT: Blazer.

MS. CLARK: Thank you.

MS. CLARK: --blazer?

THE COURT: With stripes.

MS. PILNAK: No.

MS. CLARK: Did you see a white Nissan--excuse me. Did you see a Nissan 300ZX driving northbound on Bundy?

MS. PILNAK: No, I did not.

MS. CLARK: Did you see a white--strike that. Do you have a clear view of the intersection of Bundy and Dorothy?

MS. PILNAK: Yes, I do.

MS. CLARK: From your porch?

MS. PILNAK: Very clear. . . .

MS. CLARK: On the night of June the 12th, when you were out on your porch, did you see any large white Ford truck?

MS. PILNAK: No.

MS. CLARK: Did you see any vehicles parked on the curb area there?

MS. PILNAK: I didn't notice any vehicles.

MS. CLARK: Did you hear any loud voices coming from the location of the intersection of Bundy and Dorothy that night?

MS. PILNAK: No.

MS. CLARK: At any time?

MS. PILNAK: No.

MS. CLARK: Other than the sound of the dog barking at 10:33 or even possibly earlier as you've indicated, was that the
only sound that you heard?

MR. COCHRAN: That misstates the evidence.

THE COURT: Overruled.

MS. PILNAK: Would you repeat that, please?

MS. CLARK: Yes. On the night of June the 12th, as you've testified, at approximately 10:33 or possibly earlier as you've indicated, the sound of the dog barking, was that the only sound you heard that drew your attention on the night of June the 12th?

MS. PILNAK: That--at that time, yes, but it wasn't before 10:33. I'm positive of that.

MS. CLARK: Okay. You're very sure of that?

MS. PILNAK: Well, I retimed my activities.

MS. CLARK: And when you say you retimed your activities--well, let me ask--let me--I've already shown you this page of your itinerary, correct? . . .

MS. PILNAK: Yes. But there were additions.

MS. CLARK: I'm sorry. This is the itinerary though that you typed in January--on January 25th of 1995?

MS. PILNAK: Yes.

MS. CLARK: And on January 25th, 1995, you were able to recall that exactly 10:18 P.M., you looked at the digital time clock on your message machine and said to Judy, quote, "Judy, it's 10:18 and you're going to have to leave. I'm going to Aspen in two days and I have a ton of things I have to get done. You've been here all day," end quote.

MS. PILNAK: Yes.

MS. CLARK: And you remember saying those exact words to her; is that correct?

MS. PILNAK: I remembered saying those the following day. I didn't just remember in January.

MS. CLARK: But you didn't write it down the following day, did you?

MS. PILNAK: No, I did not.

MS. CLARK: You wrote it down on January 25th, 1995?

MS. PILNAK: Yes.

MS. CLARK: And then for the entry for 10:21 to 10:25 P.M., you indicate that you and Judy commented about the weather saying, quote, "It's really a strange night. It's so quiet. It's almost eerie," in all caps, end quote, and you recall making that exact comment to her?

MS. PILNAK: Yes, I do.

MS. CLARK: And you recalled that on January 25th, 1995, seven months after the event?

MS. PILNAK: I recalled it earlier also, yes.

MS. CLARK: But you only wrote it down seven months later, correct?

MS. PILNAK: Yes.

MS. CLARK: Now, on the second page, you indicate--I'm going to show it to you--"The dog continuously barked. I said
to myself out loud," quote, "I hope that damn dog stops barking before I go to sleep," end quote.

MS. PILNAK: Yes.

MS. CLARK: And you recall thinking those exact words at that exact time on June the 12th, 1995, correct?

MS. PILNAK: Yes. Yes. I said it out loud. I remember.

MS. CLARK: And you remembered that on January 25th, 1995, correct?

MS. PILNAK: I wrote it down on January 25th. I remembered it before then.

MS. CLARK: Now, if you would tell us, where did Judy drive? What was her direction of travel?

MS. PILNAK: Judy's car was parked right in front of my house on the street facing north, and she proceeded north to Dorothy, she made a left and--used to be able to make a left-hand turn there--and just made a U-turn right--she--she was parked here, came up and turned right in there (Indicating) and then went south.

MS. CLARK: Okay. And that was at 10:21 or 10:22?

MS. PILNAK: No. It was probably 10:24 or right at 10:25.

MS. CLARK: And you saw--while you were out on the porch, you saw no other car proceeding from Dorothy and north on Bundy?

MS. PILNAK: No other car. That's why we commented on that night.

MS. CLARK: You did not see a 300 Nissan ZX driving westbound on Dorothy and then northbound on Bundy?

MR. COCHRAN: Asked and answered.

THE COURT: Sustained.

MS. CLARK: Now, Judy Telander is here in court with you today, isn't she?

MS. PILNAK: Yes, she is.

MS. CLARK: And you have been waiting together in the--in a little room?

MS. PILNAK: Yes.

MS. CLARK: And you saw Ellen Aaronson today, didn't you?

MS. PILNAK: Yes.

MS. CLARK: And you were waiting with her in that little room?

MS. PILNAK: Yes.

MS. CLARK: And how long were you all together in that room?

MS. PILNAK: Well, everybody was running in different directions, but probably a few hours, you know, since this morning. Could of--you know, four or five hours.

MS. CLARK: Uh-huh. And now, Miss Telander is somebody who has been your friend for quite a long time?

MS. PILNAK: Yes.

MS. CLARK: And after you were--became aware of the murders that were committed on Bundy on June the 12th, you
spoke to her about the events of that night; did you not?

MS. PILNAK: Yes.

MS. CLARK: On several occasions; have you not?

MS. PILNAK: Yes.

MS. CLARK: In fact, you've shown her this script, haven't you, your itinerary?

MS. PILNAK: Yes.

MR. COCHRAN: Object to use of the word "Script."

THE COURT: Overruled.

MR. COCHRAN: Move to strike.

MS. CLARK: Well, there's dialogue.

MS. CLARK: And on how many occasions would you say you've spoken to her about the events of that night since June
the 13th?

MS. PILNAK: Well, initially, particularly right after the preliminary hearing, a lot. Several times. I mean, I couldn't put, you know, a number to that, but many, many times.
(Discussion held off the record between the Deputy District Attorneys.)

MS. CLARK: Do you recall exactly how long you've been here today?

MS. PILNAK: Umm, I arrived about 10:15, 10:30.

MS. CLARK: And you are wearing two watches?

MS. PILNAK: Well, my first watch wasn't working real well. So I just wanted to make sure with time.

MS. CLARK: So was it 10:15 or was it 10:30?

MS. PILNAK: I didn't look at what time I arrived today. I'm a stickler with time when I remember things, when I look at a clock and say it's 10:18, and then it's very easy because I have a routine in my life. So I can very easily calculate how long things take.

MS. CLARK: Was it not a big event for you to come to court today?

MS. PILNAK: I wasn't looking forward to it. . . .
 

REDIRECT EXAMINATION BY MR. COCHRAN

MR. COCHRAN: Miss Pilnak, I'd like to ask you a couple questions if I might. With regard to this document that we're now about to talk about, Defendant's 1238, as I understand it, that's a document that you prepared and sent to Detective Vannatter; isn't that correct?

MS. PILNAK: Yes.

MR. COCHRAN: And throughout this matter, when I was questioning you before, you said you were interested in justice; is that right?

MS. PILNAK: Yes.

MR. COCHRAN: In fact, you're a big, big support of the police, aren't you?

MS. PILNAK: Yes, I am.

MR. COCHRAN: Now, this is the second page of the document that Miss Clark was reading to you. And do you recall that at some point, you said aloud to yourself, "I hope that so and so dog stops barking before I go to sleep"?

MS. PILNAK: Yes.

MR. COCHRAN: Remember saying that specifically?

MS. PILNAK: Yes.

MR. COCHRAN: That's something you remember back on the late evening hours of June 12th, 1994 or the early morning hours of June 13th; is that right?

MS. PILNAK: Yes.

MR. COCHRAN: Okay. And you went on to talk about the dog barking for a very long time; is that correct?

MS. PILNAK: Yes.

MR. COCHRAN: Then you put a paragraph in entitled, "No dog was barking at 10:15 P.M."; is that correct?

MS. PILNAK: Yes.

MR. COCHRAN: You typed that in yourself on your computer?

MS. PILNAK: Yes.

MR. COCHRAN: And you went on to indicate that, "My windows were open while my friend Judy was working on my computer." What windows were you talking about?

MS. PILNAK: The front windows in the office.

MR. COCHRAN: And those are the front windows in your house?

MS. PILNAK: Yes. And they're on the--the north--they're right on Bundy and they're the farthest north side of the house.

MR. COCHRAN: And so when you went on to say, "This room is in the front of my house and you can hear just about every noise on Bundy from it", is that accurate?

MS. PILNAK: Yes. Yes.

MR. COCHRAN: "And I was standing on the front porch at 10:21 P.M. while Judy was in the street by her car. It was exceptionally quiet outside at that time"; is that correct?

MS. PILNAK: Yes.

MR. COCHRAN: And again, that was consistent with what you said when you talked to Vannatter; is that correct?

MS. PILNAK: Yes.

MR. COCHRAN: All right. And even since that time, you've had occasion to call the police and you corrected it even further and spelled out other things that you had done that day; is that correct?

MS. PILNAK: Yes.

MR. COCHRAN: As you sit here now, Miss Pilnak, is there any doubt in your mind that you did not hear any dog bark on the evening of June 12th, 1994 before 10:33 P.M. in the evening? Any doubt at all?

MS. PILNAK: There's no doubt.

MR. COCHRAN: Thank you, ma'am. Thank you for coming.

MR. COCHRAN: One last question. With regard to this room that you're in upstairs, is that a room where we're trying to house witnesses so we can bring them down as fast as possible? Is that correct?

MS. PILNAK: Yes.

MR. COCHRAN: And is there an attorney left in that room with you at all times?

MS. PILNAK: Yes, there is.

MR. COCHRAN: Thank you.

THE COURT: Miss Clark.
 

RECROSS-EXAMINATION BY MS. CLARK

MS. CLARK: All right. So today, you're certain of all the times you've testified to; is that correct?

MS. PILNAK: Yes.

MS. CLARK: And the only time you had any doubt was on the morning that you actually spoke to the police investigating these murders; is that correct?

MS. PILNAK: I had not recounted for my time, yes.

MS. CLARK: So that is correct. The only time you had doubt is when you were talking to the police officers who were investigating these murders on the morning of June the 13th?

MS. PILNAK: That and probably when I spoke with reporters.

MS. CLARK: And also when you spoke to the reporters on the 13th and the 14th, correct?

MS. PILNAK: Yes.
 

FURTHER REDIRECT EXAMINATION BY MR. COCHRAN

MR. COCHRAN: When you--when you talked to your mother at 10:25 as evidenced by that phone bill right before you, were you inside your house?

MS. PILNAK: Yes. I had just walked in. Judy just left.

MR. COCHRAN: So you weren't outside looking at that point. You were inside your house, right?

MS. PILNAK: I was inside my house.

MR. COCHRAN: Thank you very kindly.

MS. PILNAK: You're welcome.

THE COURT: Anything else on that point? All right. Miss Pilnak, thank you very much. You are excused.