THE COURT: Call your next witness, please.
MR. KUNSTLER: Would you state your full name?
THE WITNESS: Linda Hager Morse.
MR. KUNSTLER: Can you indicate something of your background and education?
THE WITNESS: I was born in Philadelphia, Pennsylvania. I went to high school there. While in high school I was a Merit Scholarship semifinalist. I won the Juvenile Decency Award from the Kiwanis Club, one of thirteen high school students in Philadelphia that year. I went to the University of New Hampshire after graduating from high school. Then I left college and went back to Philadelphia and worked for several years in a community organizing project for a nonviolent pacifist group. Then I went to New York City and started working for the Fifth Avenue Vietnam Peace Parade Committee in 1965.
MR. KUNSTLER: Calling your attention to Friday, August 23, do you know what you did on that particular day?
THE WITNESS: I went down to the Mobilization office and met Dave Dellinger down there.
MR. KUNSTLER: Will you state to the Court and jury what you said to Dave Dellinger, and what he said to you?
THE WITNESS: He asked me to come with him for a permit negotiation meeting, and the reason for that was they had just learned that the courts had overturned an injunction that the Mobilization had put into the court asking for permits, and therefore there were no permits for the upcoming march the next week. And so, David asked me to come along, because I had had a lot of experience in negotiating for permits, for this emergency meeting down at City Hall where they were going to ask to see Mayor Daley.
MR. KUNSTLER: As a result of this conversation, did you and Mr., Dellinger do anything?
THE WITNESS: Yes. We went down to City Hall. We went into
an anteroom or waiting room outside of the mayor's offices and sat around
for quite a long time asking to see Mayor Daley. There were press
people down there with us from various TV stations and newspapers who had
followed us down there. Finally, a man came out, a city official,
and spoke to us and said that Mayor Daley would not see us and that the
matter was closed at this point.
So that was the end of that.
MR. KUNSTLER: Now, I call your attention to Sunday, August 25, approximately 10: 30, in Lincoln Park. Can you describe the scene when you arrived?
THE WITNESS: Some people were sitting around, singing or talking, other people were walking around. It was just kind of an ordinary park scene with a little bit of excitement.
MR. KUNSTLER: Did there come a time when you saw some policemen in the park?
THE WITNESS: Oh, yes. There was a little house in the middle of
the park, and at one point a group of policemen moved in front of the house,
and stood with their backs up against the house, just standing there in
I went over with a group of people to see what they were doing, and there was some chanting and stuff at them. I thought it was funny --we were teasing--
MR. KUNSTLER: Did you see anything thrown?
THE WITNESS: No.
MR. KUNSTLER: Did you see Jerry Rubin at all at this time?
THE WITNESS: No.
MR. KUNSTLER: Do you know Jerry Rubin?
THE WITNESS: Yes, I have known him since 1967.
MR. KUNSTLER: Now, Miss Morse, I call your attention to Wednesday, August
28, and particularly to the time between 12:30 and 1:00 p.m. Do you
know where you were then?
THE WITNESS: That is the time that I arrived at Grant Park, the Bandshell.
MR. KUNSTLER: What happened after that?
THE WITNESS: I went with the people who were going to march.
MR. KUNSTLER: Can you tell the Court and jury where, if any place, the line moved to?
THE WITNESS: It moved about a block and a half or two blocks, and then we were stopped by policemen, a large group of them.
MR. KUNSTLER: After the march had been stopped by the police what happened to the demonstrators?
THE WITNESS: People got up slowly at first in small groups, couples, you know, twos and threes, and walked away from the march and across the first park toward the bridges to get across to the second park to the Hilton.
MR. KUNSTLER: Now, did you do this yourself?
THE WITNESS: I went through the first park and came up to the first bridge. It was blocked off by National Guardsmen, and I got very frightened because we were trapped.
MR. SCHULTZ: Objection, if the Court please.
THE COURT: "I got very frightened" those words may go out and the jury is directed to disregard them.
MR. KUNSTLER: Did you have a conversation with Dave Dellinger"
THE WITNESS: Yes, I did. I told him that I was afraid that we were encircled by the National Guardsmen and the police, and that if we attempted to march that we would be beaten and arrested, and that I thought that it was too great a risk, and we had to call off the march and go back in front of the Conrad Hilton where I thought we would be safe.
MR. KUNSTLER: Did Dave Dellinger respond to the suggestion?
THE WITNESS: He told me that he felt we had to try to march; that Vietnamese and GI's were dying and this was least we could do, was to attempt to protest the war, and we had to follow through with it.
MR. KUNSTLER: Did you cross over the first bridge?
THE WITNESS: There was a row of Guardsmen in front and some trucks behind them and they were standing there with guns and tear gas masks, and one of the trucks had some weird kind of gun mounted on it. I don't know whether it was a machine gun or to shoot tear gas or what?
MR. KUNSTLER: When you couldn't get across the first bridge, what did you do?
THE WITNESS: Went up to the second bridge which was further north, I guess. We started to trot at this point and we came up to the bridge and the Guardsmen saw us coming and they shot tear gas at us. After that tear gassing we had to go and wash our eyes out in a fountain because it was really bad. Then we ran up to the last bridge, you know, and just made it across the last bridge as a group of Guardsmen were coming up.
MR. KUNSTLER: Where did you go?
THE WITNESS: We ran across the park and then back down that big street
towards the Conrad Hilton. It was dark or late dusk by this time
and there were really brilliant lights shining on the crowd and people
were chanting. I remember hearing "The whole world is watching.
The whole world is watching. Flash your lights. Flash your
They were referring to the buildings and asking people in the buildings who were watching if they were sympathetic to us to flash their lights and there were lots of lights flashing. And people were standing around in that area and sitting on the side resting.
MR. KUNSTLER: Then what did you do yourself?
THE WITNESS: I sat there for a little while and I was exhausted and frightened and I just went home after that.
MR. KUNSTLER: I show you D-112 for identification and ask you if you can identify what is in that picture.
THE WITNESS: Yes, this is one of the bridges with Guardsmen blocking it off. And they have guns.
MR. KUNSTLER: Did you see any of that equipment before?
THE WITNESS: Yes, that gun.
MR. KUNSTLER: What type of gun is that?
THE WITNESS: Machine gun is what it looks like to me.
MR. KUNSTLER: I have no further questions, your Honor.
MR. SCHULTZ: You saw one of the machine guns in the picture; you don't know what caliber it is, do you?
THE WITNESS: No.
MR. SCHULTZ: You practice shooting an M-1 yourself, don't you?
THE WITNESS: Yes, I do.
MR. SCHULTZ: You also practice karate, don't you?
THE WITNESS: Yes, I do.
MR. SCHULTZ: That is for the revolution, isn't it?
THE WITNESS: After Chicago I changed from being a pacifist to the realization we had to defend ourselves. A nonviolent revolution was impossible. I desperately wish it was possible.
MR. SCHULTZ: And the only way you can change this country, is it not, is by a violent revolution, isn't that your thought?
THE WITNESS: I believe we have to have a revolution that changes the society into a good society, and to a society that meets the ideals that the country was founded on years ago which it hasn't met since then, and I think that we have the right to defend ourselves. The Minutemen in New York City were arrested with bazookas. Housewives in suburban areas have guns.
MR. SCHULTZ: And the way you are going to change this country is by violent revolution, isn't that right, Miss Morse?
THE WITNESS: The way we are going to change the country is by political revolution, sir.
MR. SCHULTZ: Miss Morse, isn't it a fact that in your opinion, there is no alternative but revolution?
THE WITNESS: Yes.
MR. SCHULTZ: And is it a fact that you believe that the revolution will be gradual, and you and your people will gain control of the cities of the United States just like the guerrillas of the National Liberation Front are gaining control of the cities in Vietnam?
THE WITNESS: I believe that the people of the United States will regain control of their own cities just like the Vietnamese people are regaining control of their country.
MR. SCHULTZ: Isn't it a fact that you believe that the United States Government will control sections of its cities while the fighting rages in other sections of the cities not controlled by the Government of the United States?
THE WITNESS: The Government of the United States has lost its credibility
today; there is fighting going on in cities in this country today.
People's Park in Berkeley, the policemen shot at us when people were unarmed,
were fighting with rocks, the policemen used doublebuckshot and rifles
and pistols against unarmed demonstrators.
That is fighting. OK. People are fighting to regain their liberty, fighting to regain their freedom, fighting for a totally different society, people in the black community, people in the Puerto Rican community, people in the Mexican-American community and people in the white communities. They are fighting by political means as well as defending themselves.
MR. SCHULTZ: Your Honor, I move to strike that as nonresponsive.
MR. KUNSTLER: Your Honor, they are intensely political questions and she is trying to give a political answer to a political question.
THE COURT: This is not a political case as far as I am concerned. This is a criminal case. I can't go into politics here in this court.
MR. KUNSTLER: Your Honor, Jesus was accused criminally, too, and we understand really that was not truly a criminal case in the sense that it is just an ordinary.
THE COURT: I didn't live at that time. I don't know. Some people think I go back that far, but I really didn't.
MR. KUNSTLER: Well, I was assuming your Honor had read of the incident.
THE COURT: We are dealing with a cross-examination of a witness, and I direct you to answer the question.
MR. SCHULTZ: Gradually the Government of the United States will be taken over by this revolution?
THE WITNESS: Yes.
MR. SCHULTZ: And that your ultimate goal is to create a nation with this revolutionary party?
THE WITNESS: Revolutionary party? My ultimate goal is to create a society that is a free society; that is a joyous society where everyone is fed, where everyone is educated, where everyone has a job, where everyone has a chance to express himself artistically or politically, or spiritually, or religiously.
MR. SCHULTZ: With regard to the revolution that we are talking about, you are prepared, aren't you, both to die and to kill for it, isn't that right?
THE WITNESS: Yes, in self-defense.
MR. SCHULTZ: And further, because the educational system is so rotten, that if you cannot change it you will attempt to totally destroy it in the United States, isn't that right?
THE WITNESS: The educational system in the United States right now is destroying millions of people in Vietnam and around the world. The aerosol bombs that are used in Vietnam, or are being prepared to be used in Vietnam for CBW warfare were prepared right in Berkeley, California, where I live, and the educational system in the country is used currently to destroy people, not to create life. I believe we have to stop the murder of people around the world and in the United States and when the educational system of this country participates in it technologically, yes, we have to put our bodies in the way and stop that process.
MR. SCHULTZ: That is part of the reason why you are learning how to shoot your M-1 rifle?
THE WITNESS: I am learning how to shoot my M-1 rifle for two reasons, sir. One of them is to protect myself from situations that I was in in Berkeley some time back where I was grabbed by two young men and taken off to the hills and molested, and housewives all over the country have guns in their houses for that very purpose. The other thing is the fact that every time I walk on the street in Berkeley and pass a police car, the policemen look out their windows and make snide comments and say, "Hi, Linda, how are you doing? You better watch out. Hi, Linda, you better be careful, and it seems like every single policeman in Berkeley knows who I am, and when policemen start doing things like what they have been doing lately, killing Fred Hampton, attacking the Black Panther office in Los Angeles, shooting people in People's Park and in Chicago, then I believe we have the right to defend ourselves.
MR. SCHULTZ: One of the reasons further for your revolution is your opposition to capitalism and imperialism, isn't that right?
THE WITNESS: That's right.
MR. SCHULTZ: And the more you realize our system is sick, the more you want to tear it limb to limb, isn't that right?
THE WITNESS: The more that I see the horrors that are perpetrated by this Government, the more that I read about things like troop trains full of nerve gas traveling across the country where one accident could wipe out thousands and thousands of people, the more that I see things like companies just pouring waste into lakes and into rivers and just destroying them, the more I see things like the oil fields in the ocean off Santa Barbara coast where the Secretary of the Interior and the oil companies got together and agreed to continue producing oil from those offshore oil fields and ruined a whole section of the coast: the more I see things like an educational system which teaches black people and Puerto Rican people and Mexican-Americans that they are only fit to be domestics and dishwashers, if that; the more that I see a system that teaches middle class whites like me that we are supposed to be technological brains to continue producing CBW warfare, to continue working on computers and things like that to learn how to kill people better, to learn how to control people better, yes, the more I want to see that system torn down and replaced by a totally different one, one that cares about people learning; that cares about children being fed breakfast before they go to school: one that cares about people learning real things, one that cares about people going to college for free; one that cares about people living adult lives that are responsible, fulfilled adult lives, not just drudgery, day after day after day of going to a job; one that gives people a chance to express themselves artistically and politically, and religiously and philosophically. That is the kind of system I want to see in its stead.
MR. SCHULTZ: Now, isn't it a fact, Miss Morse, that your learning your karate and your other skill is to use these skills in revolutionary guerrilla warfare on the streets of the American cities?
THE WITNESS: I still don't know whether I could ever kill anyone, Mr. Schultz. I haven't reached that point yet.
MR. SCHULTZ: I have no further questions on the examination.
THE COURT: All right. Does the defense want to conduct a redirect examination?
MR. KUNSTLER: Can you state to the jury what your views were about the United States and the world prior to the Democratic National Convention in 1968?
THE WITNESS: Prior to the Democratic Convention I had believed that the United States system had to be changed, but the way to bring about that change was through nonviolent means, through nonviolent action, and through political organizing. I felt that we could reach policemen, that we could reach the Government of the United States by holding nonviolent sit-ins and nonviolent demonstrations, by putting our bodies on the line and allowing ourselves to be beaten if they chose to do that.
MR. KUNSTLER: Can you explain to the jury why your attitude toward your country and the world changed because of the Democratic Convention week?
THE WITNESS: The specific things that made me change my attitude were the actions on Mayor Daley's part in refusing to give us permits, in violating completely as far as I was concerned, the Constitution which allows you the right to march and demonstrate, the actions on the part of the policemen and some of the National Guardsmen in beating demonstrators horribly, and what I saw on television of what was going on inside the Convention which convinced me that the democratic process, political process, had fallen apart; that the police state that existed outside the Convention also existed inside the Convention and that nonviolent methods would not work to change that; that we had to defend ourselves or we would be wiped out.
MR. KUNSTLER: By the way, how old are you?
THE WITNESS: Twenty-six years old. Just twenty-six.
MR. KUNSTLER: That is all.
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