The Day of
the Murder Q: The
next morning, when you did go down to the courthouse, did you carry a
gun? A: Oh, I had my gun. Of course, in those
days-well, I was
29 years old. I was no kid, but I was ready to brawl. Then, again, you
don't
tangle with a big bastard like that. You need a bit of false courage. Q: Did Massie bring a gun? A: I don't
believe he did. Tommie never carried a gun. Tommie Massie was a
very well-educated boy. Q: Did Lord bring a gun? A: I don't
know. Maybe he did. Q: Now,
was the plan to bring Kahahawai back to Mrs. Fortescue's to get him
to confess? Q: Did
someone else, Mrs. Fortescue, for example, have some other idea? A: I don't know. I guess she was like the
other two of us,
Eddie and me. She had a lot on the ball. She's a pretty smooth woman,
you know.
But I think the main idea was the psychological effect of the three of
us
firing questions at this kanaka
[Hawaiian]. Q: How
long did you have to wait in front of the courthouse for Kahahawai? A: Five or six minutes. You see, we knew when they had to report. It just so happened that it was Kahahawai. It could have been any one of the other four. Had it been, he'd have got just exactly what Kahahawai got.Q: Did Mrs. Fortescue point him out to
you? A: I don't
think she did, because I wasn't anywhere near her. Q: What
did you do when Kahahawai came out of the building? A: I showed him this thing I had. Q: The bogus summons? A: This paper with the gold seal from Massie's
diploma. I
showed it to him and put him in the back seat. Tommie was sitting in
the front
seat, driving, and I was sitting in the back seat with Kahahawai. Q: Was there any conversation? A: He wanted to know where we were taking him
and I said,
"Don't worry." We tried to give him the impression that we were the
police. Q: Where did you go? A: Mrs. Fortescue's. We drove the car into the
driveway. I
think we come in the back door. We come in the kitchen and the dining
room into
the living room. Q: Who do you mean by "we"? A: Tommie, Kahahawai, and me. I was bringing
up the rear.
Tommie unlocked the back door. We come in the kitchen; come through the
dining
room. You come in the kitchen this way [demonstrates] into the dining
room.
Then there was a big door. Q: A door or an archway? A: An arch. It wasn't a door; it was an arch.
There was a
chaise longue just inside the arch. Tommie made him sit on this chaise
longue.
Tommie pulled over a hassock and sat down facing him. I brought in one
of the
dining room chairs and sat on Tommie's right, facing the kanaka. I had my gun in my fist, pointed
right at him. Q: Where
were Lord and Mrs. Fortescue at that point? A: They hadn't come back from the courthouse
yet. Q: What happened then? A: Tommie
began asking him questions. Q: What
questions? A: Naturally, one of them was why he done such
a thing.
The whole conversation seemed to be about not only the violation but
the terrific beating the girl
took.
That was what Tommie was trying to get at. He was trying to get this kanaka to admit it, see. Q: What was Kahahawai's response? A: He was scared. He was scared almost white.
Let's put it
this way: supposing you and me are sitting here and we got a nigger
sitting
right there and I got a gun. He's going to be scared, isn't he? Unless
he's a
God damn fool, and this guy was no fool. Q: How did Tommie appear to you? A: Lieutenant Massie was a very direct
personality. He was
all man and all officer. You'll have to try to put yourself in his
place. He
had a really high-class academic training. A fellow with that
background,
academically, would no doubt feel tense or nervous, because we were
breaking
the law. There was no doubt about that. Q: Now,
you had no personal reason for animosity toward Kahahawai? A: Well, I don't hate anybody. Hate is another
expression
of fear and I didn't fear this black bastard, although I had no use for
him. To
me, it was a challenge. Q: You say Massie
was questioning him. Then what happened? A: Massie
asked him a question and Kahahawai lunged at him. I say, "lunged."
Somebody else might say he just leaned forward. Q: And
then? A: I shot him. Q: You shot
him? A: You're God damn right I did. I shot him
right
underneath the left nipple and to the side. When that slug hit him he
just went
over backwards on the chaise longue. The bullet didn't go through him.
It
stayed in his body. That was the climax, right there. A: When I shot
that son-of-a-bitch, I knew what I was doing. Q: How did you feel then? A: When that
shot was fired, it had completely gone out of our hands. We were in a
peck of trouble and we knew it. Q: How
long after you arrived in the house was this? Q: How
much blood was there? A: Oh, just a little trickle. Q: Where were Mrs. Fortescue and Lord
when the shot was fired? Q: What was Mrs. Fortescue's reaction? A: She was a
scared woman. I think she took a hold of Tommie and hugged him. You
know, she
liked Tommie. Q: Then what happened? Q: Did Mrs. Fortescue come in the
bathroom with you? A: She was standing at the door when we put
him in the
tub. We told her to shove off, because we was going to undress him. We
were all
excited. I think Eddie said, "Mrs. Fortescue, get the hell out of
here." We had this joker in the bathtub. The water was on. I don't know
why, but we were going to undress him. We had his pants down, trying to
get
them off his feet. He was exposed. Q: Tommie
was in the bathroom, too? A: Yes. Q: What was his reaction? A: You know, I had never killed a man before. Believe me. Now Tommie, of course, was a brilliantly
educated boy.
I was just an ordinary, everyday seaman. Maybe this was to boost my own
ego or maybe I said it to quiet
things
down, but I said to Mr. Massie, "For Christ's sake, didn't you ever
kill a
man before?" He said, "No, Jones, I never did." Well, I hadn't
either, but I was going to be something I wasn't. Q: After the bathtub episode you took
the body out to the car? A: After the
gunfire was all over there was an interval there. Maybe thirty or
thirty-five
minutes. Q: You helped them carry the body to
the car? A: Yes. As I remember, Tommie said, "Go
over and stay with Thalia until I come back." Then they shoved off. A: Yes. Q: Why? A: To have a
drink, I guess. Q: As I understand the testimony, the
Attorney General called Mrs. Fortescue's. Was it you who answered the
phone? A: Yes. I remember that call. I picked up
the telephone
and answered. Q: Did you unload your .32 at Mrs.
Fortescue's? A: I didn't unload my gun. If you
shoot a man, you certainly aren't going to unload your gun. Not if
you're a
service man. That's plain old common sense to have protection for
yourself.
While I may be an idiot in a hell of a lot of things, I don't walk
around with
an empty gun. Q: Then you went over to Massie's? A: Then I went
over to the Massies'. Q: When
you first arrived at the Massies' house, were Helene and Thalia
awake? A: One of them was up, because I
knocked on the door. They were in pajamas. As I recall, Thalia answered
the
door. I guess my face showed there was something wrong, because she
asked me
what had happened. Q: Did
you have your.32 with you? A: I did. Q: What did you do with it? A: Little Helene-that pistol-I
handed it to her and she says, "I'll take it." She was as smart as a
whip. You know what she done with it? Q: I
know what she told me. A: What? Q: You tell me. A: She hid it
in the bottom of a Kotex box. Is that what she told you? Q: Yes. Her hobby
used to be painting landscapes. In fact, it still is. She said that,
the day
before all this happened, she was painting way off on some deserted
beach. When
you gave her the gun she hid it in her Kotex box. She said that was a
place she
used to hide things when she was at boarding school. Then she said she
took the
box in Tommie's car out to this beach where she had been painting. She
remembered
there was a pool of quicksand there and she tossed the gun into the
quicksand.
For all she knows, it's still there. A: Leave it
there, pardner. Q: When
you were at the Massies', did you telephone Massie's skipper? A: Yes, I did. Q: Why? A: Just an idea. I called him and I
says, "Captain, take care of Tommie Massie." You know what he told
me? He says, "You go to hell." Hung up on me. I can't recall I ever
met Lieutenant Pace before that. Q: Did you tell him what had happened? A: No. You
see, we were over-leave. We were in town without authorization. Q: Did you call anyone else? A: Not that I
can recall. Q: Where
did you have the clip to your .32? A: It was in the damn gun I gave Helene. Q: But a clip for a .32 was found in
your pocket? A: Oh, that was a spare. When I
bought the gun it came with two clips. That's the reason for an
automatic-so
you can reload in a hurry.
I had the spare in my pocket, along with that summons thing. That just
shows
you how stupid I was. Instead of throwing the whole damn business away,
getting
rid of the damn stuff-of course, I was excited and scared. Q: Wight
and McIntosh came into Massie's house twice, didn't they? A: You mean the law? Yes. The second time they
took me. Did Darrow
Know? Q: After you had time to think it
over, how did you feel about the killing? A: I can't say
I shed any tears. Q: You weren't upset? A: No, I can't
say I was. In fact, I slept very good that night. Q: What night? A: That night
I was in the pokey. Q: Did Clarence Darrow ever quiz you
about what happened that morning in Mrs. Fortescue's house? A: No, he
never did, although he knew what happened there. Q: How do you know? A: I told him. Q: When? A: At the very
end of the trial; just about the last day or two. A: I didn't think nothing of it. I figured,
the hell with
it. That seemed to me Mr. Darrow's idea to let Tommie take the rap,
because, if
it had been either Lord or I that was up there, they'd say, "What in
hell
was he doing in it, anyway." But Tommie had a motive and the reason.
After
all, it was his wife. |