Investigating the Raid at Harper's Ferry
SAMUEL
G. HOWE Sworn
and examined. By
the CHAIRMAN: Question:
Will you please to state where you reside, and what is your profession? Answer. I reside in
Boston, Massachusetts; I am by education a physician; I do not practice
my
profession. I have charge of two charitable public institutions. Question: Will you
state whether you were acquainted with John Brown, who was recently put
to
death in Virginia, for offenses against the laws of Virginia? Answer. I Was. Question: When did you
form his acquaintance, and under what circumstances; what led to it,
and where
did you form it? Answer. My
acquaintance was first formed by correspondence in the year 1856 or
1857. I
cannot state clearly which. I would premise that my memory is
singularly
deficient about dates. I became acquainted with him in 1857, as the
agent of
the Kansas Aid Committee. Question: Who was the
agent? Answer .
John Brown. Question: You say you
became acquainted with him as agent; was he the agent? Answer.
He was the agent, and in one sense I was the agent, in as much as I
went to
Kansas for the purposes of the committee. Question: What was the
style of the committee? Answer. The Question: Did you form
his acquaintance in Kansas? Answer. I think I did. Question: Will you
state what was the object and the occupation or employment of that
committee?
What was the object of raising the committee? What were their functions? Answer. I was
connected with two committees. One committee was raised for the purpose
of
getting clothing and money for aiding the suffering inhabitants of
Kansas; that
was the express object of the committee of which I was chairman.
Another committee,
of which I was a member, was raised for the general purpose of aiding
the inhabitants
of Kansas in the defense of their freedom then invaded and repelling
invaders. Question: For
distinction sake, can you give us the distinctive names of those two
committees? Answer. One was the
Boston committee, usually called the Faneuil Hall Committee, inasmuch
as the
original meeting was at Faneuil Hall; it had no official name; it was
not an
incorporated body; it was called just what people chose to call it. The
other
was the Massachusetts Kansas Aid Committee. Question: Was that incorporated? Answer. No, ,iir. Question: When was
this Massachusetts Kansas Aid Committee formed? Answer.
I think after the Boston committee, but I cannot say precisely. Question: In what
year, as near as you can recollect. Answer. 1857. Question: Did you say
that Brown was the agent of that committee? Answer. He was not
then the agent of the committee. I said I had formed his acquaintance
then. I
was then the agent. He afterwards became the agent of the Massachusetts
committee. Question:
What was his agency? What was he to do? Answer. The first
express business, as far as I can recollect, is that he called on the
State
committee, of which I was only a member, whereas of the other committee
I was
the chairman and the efficient working man. The first business that I
can
recollect was that, in consequence of the difficulty of getting arms
and
provisions and clothing up the Missouri river, it was found expedient
to
transport them across the country, and Mr. Brown, or Captain Brown as
he was
called, was appointed the agent to transport those articles of various
kinds
arms) provisions, and clothing-into Kansas. That was the first, as far
as I can
recollect. Question: Will you
state what was the character and the quantity of the arms that were
entrusted
to him in that way? Answer. I can state
nothing with any precision. I have no knowledge about it that would
enable me,
under oath, to say. I can recollect distinctly that, to the best of my
knowledge and belief, two hundred Sharp's rifles were committed to his
care. Question: Were those
rifles at Chicago at the time they were committed to his care, do you
recollect? Answer.
I cannot say. Question: Were there
any revolving pistols in the same parcel? Answer. I cannot
positively say, but my impression is that there were. Question:
Do I understand that those arms were the property of this Massachusetts
Aid
Committee? Answer.
They were the property of that committee. Question:
How were they procured? Answer.
They were purchased by subscriptions; contributions raised and sent in
voluntarily by the people. Question:
For the purpose of purchasing arms? Answer.
No; for the aid of Kansas. The committee, in their own discretion,
purchased
the arms. I recollect that distinctly, because the objection was made
that some
of the contributors to the Boston committee would be unwilling to have
any of
their money appropriated for arms. Question: And thus,
according to your recollection, the arms were purchased as the act and
at the
discretion of the committee, with funds belonging to the committee? Answer. Yes, sir, that
is my impression. Question: Can you tell
us when those arms were purchased? Answer. I think, in 1857; but I must
fall
back on my imperfect memory
about dates. Question: They were
committed to John Brown, as agent of the society, for the purpose of
transporting them across the country to Kansas, as the river was not
considered
accessible? Answer.
Yes, sir. Question:
Do you know at what point he deposited them after their transportation? Answer.
My impression is that he deposited them at Tabor, in Iowa. Question:
Can you tell us under whose control they were while they were at Tabor; who had
charge of them there? Answer.
I cannot recall the person's name. I saw him, but cannot recall his
name; Question:
By what authority were they put in the custody of the person whose name
you
cannot recall? Answer.
I have no knowledge of that. Question:
Were they recognized as under the control of that person by the Kansas
committee? Answer.
I cannot answer that question with precision. Question:
Do you know in what way John Brown afterwards got possession of them,
when he
brought them to the region of Harper's Ferry? Answer.
I have no means of knowing that he did bring them there. Question:
Do you know then what became of them? Answer.
I do not know, of my personal knowledge, what became of them. I can
state my
impression. Question:
Tell us what knowledge you have of it, and how it was derived, as to
what
became of them? Answer. In the year
1858, I received a communication from a Mr. Forbes, then in Washington,
and
information from other quarters, that Captain Brown had in his
.possession arms
belonging to the committee, which he would probably use for
purposes not
intended by the committee. A meeting was called. The committee had then
virtually dissolved; it had nothing more to do; but the members were
called
together. A vote was passed, instructing the chairman to write to
Captain Brown
and direct him, if he held any property, arms or otherwise, belonging
to the
committee, to take them into Kansas, there to be used only for the
defense of
freedom in Kansas. Such a vote was passed, such a letter was written,
and, I
have no doubt, received by him. I think that was the last record of the
committee which was made. Question: Has a copy
of that letter been preserved? Answer. A copy is with
the records. Question: Have you got
it with you? Answer. I have not. I
was not chairman of that committee nor secretary. The records are
accessible. Question: What
committee are you speaking of now? Answer. The Question: I thought
you said you were the executive officer or the chairman of that
committee. Answer.
Of the Question:
Are those records under your control? Answer. I have no
manner of doubt I can have access to them. I inquired of the person in
whose
charge they were, before I left the city of Boston, and his reply was
that they
were all straight, and in order, and in his safe. I presume they are
accessible. Question: Will you say
in what form that communication was made to you by Captain Forbes? Was
it by
letter, or personally? Answer. By letter. Question: Written from
where? Answer. From Question: And your
direction to Captain Brown was that the arms should be taken into
Kansas and
used only for purposes there? Answer. Used only for
the defense of freedom in Kansas. Question: Do you know
whether he did or did not comply with that direction? Answer.
I have no means of knowing; but, from my confidence in his character, I
have no
doubt that he did conform to it. Question:
You wrote that letter, as I understand, as the chairman of the Boston
committee? Answer.
I did not write the letter. The chairman of the Massachusetts Aid
Committee
wrote the letter. Question: Who was the
chairman who wrote the letter you refer to? Answer. I should
prefer not to answer that Question: The CHAIRMAN: I see no
reason why you should not answer the Question: The WITNESS: I am here
to answer as to all I have done myself, freely and frankly, but I would
respectfully ask to be excused from answering any question
touching the
actions of anybody else. I can only answer for my view as one of the
committee. Mr. DAVIS. The witness
confounds his position. He is hot here arraigned to answer for what he
did, but
to give information as to what everybody did. The
CHAIRMAN: The subject referred to the committee by the Senate is to
make
inquiry into all the facts attending the late incursion at Harper's
Ferry, and
connected with it in any way. The
WITNESS: Perhaps I am over sensitive about it, and inasmuch as the
gentleman's
name is perfectly well known as chairman of the committee, and is in
print, I
will give it, Mr. George L. Stearns. Question: Did you see
the letter? Answer. I think I saw
a copy of the letter afterwards. Question: Did you
receive a letter from Mr. Wilson, of the Senate, in reference to those
arms? Answer. About the same
time. Question: Will you
state whether you preserved a copy of that letter? Answer. I preserved a
copy of the letter until recently, when, in the general destruction of
my
papers of no consequence, at the beginning of the year, I destroyed it,
among
others, but I have a distinct recollection of the contents. Question: Will yon
state the contents? Answer.
It was that he had reason to believe that Captain Brown had in his
possession
arms belonging to the Massachusetts Aid Committee, which he would be
likely to
use for purposes not contemplated by the committee; that he, Wilson,
considered
the original movement for procuring anything of the kind to have been a
very
mistaken and unfortunate one, and he advised by all means that measures
be
taken to prevent Captain Brown using those arms for any purposes not
contemplated
in their original purchase. It was a short letter, and that was the
amount of
it; but I recollect he distinctly expressed his disapprobation of the
fact of
such arms being in existence, and his disapprobation of John Brown's
general
career. Question:
In what capacity, so far as you were concerned, was that letter
addressed to
you? Why was it addressed to you? Answer.
I suppose because I had been long acquainted with General Wilson, and
he knew
that I was interested in the matter. Question:
How did you act upon it, or did you act upon it? Answer.
The information carne from these two quarters about the same time, and
upon
that information we acted as I have just described. Question: The two
quarters referred to, as I understand, were a communication made to you
by Mr.
Wilson, of which you have just spoken, and a communication made to you
by
Captain Forbes? Answer.
Yes. I did not heed much Captain Forbes's information, because it
seemed to me
to be ill-natured and spiteful. Question:
Did you preserve a copy of Forbes's letter? Answer.
I think I have a copy of it, but I have not got it with me. I think I
have it;
but I know I have a copy of my answer. Question:
Will you state the contents of Forbes's letter, if your memory will
admit? Answer. It was to this
intent, that he had been engaged during the active war in Kansas by
Captain
Brown, or by, as he called them, the Northern Abolitionists, to go to
Kansas
and drill men; that he never got any money for it; that he was in great
distress; that he must have money; that Captain Brown was not a
reliable
person; that his plans, if entrusted to a man of head and prudence,
might come
to something; and he seemed to intimate that he, Captain Forbes, was a
man of
head and prudence; that if Captain Brown was allowed to go on it would
be
disastrous; that he would denounce it; and other things to that effect.
It was
a letter rather threatening in its general character. I did not heed it
so
much. It was a very long letter, full of vituperation and abuse. I had
never
seen Captain Forbes, nor heard of him before. Question: Did I
understand you to say that a copy of that letter is preserved? Answer. I think a copy
of that letter is preserved. I am sure a copy of my answer is
preserved. The
letter was a long document; and I have the habit, when I am writing to
persons
with whom I am not very intimate, and on business that seems to be of
any
importance, to have my letters copied. General Wilson's was a short
note, and I
had several letters from him on various subjects. Question: Did you
communicate the contents or substance of Forbes's letter to Brown after
you
received it? Answer. I have no
distinct recollection of having done so. It is possible I may have done
so. I
have been told since that I did so; but I have no distinct recollection
of it,
and it seems to me improbable, in as much as it would have defeated the
purpose
which I had of preventing the contributions of persons who might have
contributed, from being diverted. I may have answered his letter, but I
have no
recollection of having done it. Question: How would
your communication of the contents of that letter to Brown, in any way
affect
the use of the contributions you speak of? The WITNESS: I do not
understand your Question: The CHAIRMAN: I
understand you to say that you think you did not let Brown know what
Forbes had
communicated to you, for the reason that it might be the means, in some
way, of
perverting from their legitimate use the contributions that had been
made by
the Massachusetts people. The WITNESS: I
remarked that such letter might prevent my purpose being executed,
which
purpose was to prevent such a perversion of the use of the arms. Question: In what way
would your communicating that to him prevent the execution of your
purpose?. Answer. I do not know.
I cannot say what passed through my mind. It looks to me now, thus:
that if
Captain Brown supposed the order which was given to him, which was
peremptory,
to take the arms into Kansas, was occasioned by such an act as this, he
might
suppose that by removing that objection the committee would be
satisfied, or something
of that kind. The order was peremptory, without any reason being
assigned for
it; and it appears to me that if we had assigned a reason and he could
obviate
that reason, he might say to himself" I am free in foro
conscientice." Question: Had you any
personal interview with Captain Forbes after his quarrel with Brown? Answer. I never saw
him at all. Question: Did you know
of any engagement he had made to go out to the West for any purpose
connected
with Kansas affairs? Answer.
I never heard of it until he stated it in his letter. Question: Can you have
the letters to which you have referred Forbes's letter to you and your
answer
to it-together with the records of that committee, brought from Boston,
without
going there again in person? Answer. It would be
very difficult to get the copies of the letters. I have not now in my
employment a person who wrote for me for many years, and who took care
of my
papers. Within the last three weeks I have been obliged to have a
change, and I
should have no certainty of finding those papers. The
CHAIRMAN: I wanted to know if you could get at them without going back?' Mr. DOOLITTLE. Perhaps
the witness could procure copies of the letters there and attach to
them his
affidavit made in Boston that they were true copies, and send them
here, and
also a copy of that record. The
WITNESS: My impression is that all can be had; except possibly Forbes's
letter,
which may have been mislaid. The
CHAIRMAN: Can it be done without the necessity of your returning
to Washington
from Boston? The WITNESS: I will
make every possible effort to do it, and I think I shall be successful.
I think
everything can be done that would be done by my coming back. Question: Will you
state whether you saw John Brown, the man who has been referred to, in
Boston,
or elsewhere, at any period during the year 1858? Answer. I saw him in
Boston in the veal' 1858. Question: Will you
state the object of his mission in coming there? Answer. He gave me no
definite information. Question:
"What information did he give you as to the purpose of his coming, the
objects he had in view in visiting that part of the country? Answer. The impression
I got from him was that he wished persons to render him what assistance
they
chose to give him, as a man having suffered in the cause of Kansas, for
the
defense of freedom in Kansas, and as a man disposed to devote himself
to the
defense of the cause of freedom. Question: In a former
part of your testimony you said those arms were to be taken to Kansas
for the
purpose of aiding in the defense of the cause of freedom; will you
state what
you mean by "the defense of the cause of freedom?" Answer. In Kansas, repelling
invasions such as had been frequent there. Question: What sort of
invasions? Answer. What are
usually called border ruffian invasions? Question: How was
your" defense of the cause of freedom" to affect it? Answer. To protect it
by repelling those who would invade it. The PHAIRMAN: I do not
still distinctly understand you. How would the cause of freedom be
affected by
any invasion in Kansas? Answer. The cause of
freedom in Kansas would be. If the polls, for instance, at an election
were
surrounded by armed men from other States, and the freemen of Kansas
were
prevented by fear from voting, I should call the man who attempted to
repel
those invaders a defender of freedom. Question: A defender
of the freedom of the white people in Kansas? Answer. I know no
distinction of color in freedom. I know no distinction of color in men. Question:
The negroes were not permitted to vote in Answer. They ought to
have been. Question: Were they? Answer. I supposed
they would be. Question: Were they at
the time? Answer.
I have no means of knowing. I think, in the territorial condition, the
people
there were not responsible for the form of government imposed on
them. The CHAIRMAN: I want
to get at this fact. In stating what you mean by defending the cause of
freedom
in Kansas, you instance it by referring to defending the freedom of
voting at
the polls. The negroes, we know, were not admitted at that time to vote
at the
polls, and I inferred, therefore, that when you spoke of the cause of
freedom
in Answer. I suppose, if The CHAIRMAN: I must
put the question in a different way. Mr. DOOLITTLE, In
relation to this question, it is a mere matter of argument between the
chairman
and the witness as to his opinions. I supposed our purpose was to get
at the
facts. The CHAIRMAN: If you
make an objection, we will entertain it. Mr. DOOLITTLE. I do
not propose to raise an objection. Mr. COLLAMER. Other
witnesses have been prevented from telling what took place in Kansas. The CHAIRMAN: The
object of the question is to see what use was intended to be made of
these arms
which we have shown were in Brown's possession and brought to Harpel" s
Ferry. I understand the witness to say that Brown was instructed to
take them
into Kansas to aid in the cause of freedom. It is certainly pertinent,
in my
judgment, to ascertain what the witness means by the cause of freedom
in
ulterior connection with the use that was actually made of the arms. The WITNESS: At that
time I had no thought about anything but the freedom of Kansas as such,
without
any thought of any colored men at all, for as far as I had seen there
were few
or no colored men there. Question: Then it was
for the freedom of the white people in Kansas? Answer.
The freedom of The CHAIRMAN: Well, to
come back again to Boston, I understand you to say that Brown's mission
was in
part, as you heard it, to obtain contributions of money in Boston? Answer. I presumed so. Question: Do you know
for what purpose those contributions were wanted by Brown? Answer. I have no
definite knowledge. Question: Have you any
knowledge? Answer. I have no
positive knowledge that I can say on oath, any more than hearsay. Question:
Anything that you derived from him? "What was Brown's statement of his
object? Answer.
He never gave me a definite statement of any plan or purpose that he
had
definitely fixed upon. Question:
Did he tell you why he wanted to collect money there; for what purpose
he
wanted the money? Answer. In no definite
shape did he tell me any plan that he had. Question: In any
shape? Answer. He appealed to
me as an anti-slavery man to help an antislavery man. By Mr. COLLAMER: Question: Was that
before this order about the arms? Answer. I think it was
before, By the CHAIRMAN: Question: Do you know
whether or not the presi9.ent of the Massachusetts State Kansas
Committee gave
Brown an order for those arms at Tabor, in 1857? Answer. I think he
did; I think they had been in the possession of another person whose
reliability was called in question; that is my Impression. Question: Who was that
other person? Answer. I cannot recollect. Question: You say you
think he did. Will you state definitely whether you know that an order
was
given to Brown for those arms or not? Answer. It is
impossible for me say. I have a very strong impression; I know of the
fact,
that they were transferred from another person to him, and therefore I
infer
the order was given by which they were so transferred. Question: Who was the secretary of the
Massachusetts State Kansas Committee?
Was it Sanborn? Answer. No, sir. Question: Who was it? Answer. I can furnish
the name, but I cannot remember it now. Question: When you saw
Brown in Boston, in 1858, can you tell what period of the year it was? Answer. I can say that
he had a fire in his room, and therefore I infer it was in the winter.
I have
no other recollection. My memory of dates is imperfect. It was probably
in the
winter months, February or March. Question:
Did you see him in Boston in the months of Mayor June, 1858? Answer.
I cannot say. Question:
Did you know that there had been a convention held by Brown and others,
at
Chatham, in Canada? Answer.
I think my first knowledge of it was derived from the
newspapers. Question: Then you had
at no time any conversation with him on the subject of that convention? Answer.
Never; to my recollection. Question: Dr. Howe,
here is a paper that purports to be in your handwriting. Will you look
at it
and see whether it is or not? Exhibiting the following note: "DEAR FRIEND: Our
friend from Concord called with your note. I begin the investment with
fifty
dollars enclosed, and will try to do more through friends. "DOCTOR.” Answer. I believe it
is. Question: Can you tell
the date? There is no date to it. When was that written? Answer.
There is no evidence on the face of the paper to show when it was
written. Question: Will you say
to whom this was addressed? Answer. I presume it
was addressed to Captain Brown. Question: Do you
remember the fact of writing it? Answer. I did write it. . Question: Do you
remember the fact of the time? Answer. I do not
remember the time. Question: Will you
please to say why your name was not signed to it? Answer. Perhaps it was
not signed because the investment to which it' referred might have been
of a
character that he, perhaps, would not like to have known at the time,
though he
would have no objection afterwards. Captain Brown was considered to
have
suffered a good deal in Kansas, and a subscription was raised to
purchase him a
homestead, and a thousand dollars was raised for that purpose. He was a
proud
man, and perhaps would not like to have had it known. Question: Was this
fifty dollars part of that thousand? Answer. If it was
given in 1857 or 1858, it might have been. Question: You say a
thousand dollars was raised? Answer. A thousand
dollars or thereabouts was raised. Question: In the years
1857 and 1858? Answer. 1857 or 1858. Question: To whom was
that money paid, or what use was made of the money? Answer. I only know
that the homestead was bought; I presume by the chairman of the
Massachusetts
Aid Committee; I am not certain. By Mr. DOOLITTLE: Question: Is that
homestead at North Elba, New York? Answer. Yes, sir. By the CHAIRMAN: Question: This letter
says: "I begin the investment with fifty dollars enclosed." If this
fifty dollars was for the purpose of buying that homestead, the money
was sent
to Brown directly? Answer. I think not.
That is my impression. The CHAIRMAN: Then
that would be contradictory to the paper, "1 begin the investment with
fifty dollars enclosed, and will try to do more through friends," if
this
referred to that purchase. Answer.
That I cannot answer, unless I could know the date of the letter. I
contributed
to his aid at various times. Question:
His aid in what way? Answer.
In the same way that I contribute to the aid of other antislavery men;
men who
give up their occupations, their industry, to write papers or to
deliver
lectures, or otherwise to propagate antislavery sentiments. I give as
much
money every year as I possibly can afford. I am in the habit of
contributing in
that way. Question: Was this
money contributed to Brown because of his personal necessities, or not? Answer. Because of his
personal worth, and because he had no ostensible means of reimbursing
himself
for his losses in Question:
Will you be good enough to say if that is in your handwriting? It is
not
signed. [Exhibiting the following paper:]
"Horse-cars leave Tremont
House every half hour.
"Get out at the Jamaica
Plain, and inquire for house of George R. Russell.
"The steam-cars leave
Providence depot.
"Get out at the Jamaica
Plain station." Answer.
That is my hand-writing. Question: Can you tell
the date when that was written? Answer. I cannot; but
I remember the circumstances. Question: What were
the circumstances? Answer. Mr. Sanborn
wanted to take Mr. Brown to Mr. Russell's house. I was going with him;
but I
could not go, though I had promised to go. I remember now, seeing that,
I wrote
this direction; but I cannot say that I gave it to Sanborn. He was not
alone. Question: That paper,
then, was written for Mr. Sanborn? Answer. It was written for Mr.
Sanborn. Question: Was it at
the time when Brown was there? Answer. It was. Question: Do you know
whether Sanborn wanted that for the use of Brown as well as himself? Answer. I presume he
did. Brown was with Sanborn at the time. Question: Who is
George R. Russell, to whom this refers? What business had Brown with
him, do
you know? Answer.
I do not know what business he had with him at all. Mr. Russell is one
of our
wealthy, liberal men, who is in the habit of contributing to the
promotion of
anti-slavery sentiments-a liberal contributor. Question: Will you
state what you mean by that phrase "contributing" for the promotion
of anti-slavery sentiments? What is the meaning of that idea? Answer. In the same
way that I would promote the Gospel among the heathen; I could not
precisely say
what. The means are various lectures, writing, talking, and discussing
the
matter. Question:
What ends are to be attained by promoting that antislavery sentiment?
What is
the object in view? Answer.
The promotion of freedom among men; the same object as the fathers in
the
revolution. Question:
Was one of its objects the means of attaining the freedom of the
African slaves
held in this country? Answer.
That would be the natural and desired result. Question:
Was that one of the ends to be attained by propagating this
anti-slavery
sentiment by lecturing and otherwise? Answer.
It was. I answer these questions out of courtesy to the chairman, but I
must
think they are rather wide. The CHAIRMAN. If you are disinclined to
answer any question, you have
only to state the fact. No question is asked you, of course, which is
not
deemed pertinent to the inquiry which is required of this committee, in
the
judgment of the gentleman who puts it. Question: Will you be good enough to inform
the committee whether you
were acquainted with a man named J. H. Kagi? Answer. I never saw him. Question: Did you have
any correspondence with him? Answer. I never
corresponded with him that I recollect. Question: Will you
please to say whether you have any recollection of this telegraphic
dispatch?
[Exhibiting the following dispatch:
[By
telegraph from To J.H. Kagi Cleveland, June 6, 1859 He got the needful and left three (3) days
ago, direction unknown. S.G.H.] Answer: I have not the slightest idea. My initials are “S.G.H.,” but I have no
recollection whatever of that. Question: Have you no recollection of being
in communication with Kagi at all? Answer: I am certain, because Kagi struck me
when reading the names in the public prints, and I asked myself the
question
who he was. Question: Did you know John Brown, jr., the
son of the Brown we have spoken of? Answer: I saw him once. Question: Where did you see him? Answer: He called upon me at my house, I
think, early in 1859. I cannot recollect
the date. Question: Here is a letter which has been
proved to be in the handwriting of John Brown, jr., dated at “Syracuse,
New
York, Thursday, August 17,
1859,"
addressed to "Friend Henrie," which has been shown to mean Kagi, in
which he says: "While in Boston, I improved the time in
making the acquaintance of
those staunch friends of our friend Isaac. First, called on Dr. H.--,
who,
though I had no letter of introduction, received me most cordially. He
gave me
a letter to the friend who does business on Was it in that month
of August, 1859, you saw John Brown, jr, in Answer. It would be
impossible for me to recollect any further than that it was not in cold
weather. Question: Did he
introduce himself? Answer. He introduced
himself. Question: Did you
receive him as the son of old John Brown? Answer. I did, and was
very glad to see him as the son of John Brown. Question: Did he tell
you the object of his visit to Boston? Answer. He did not. Question: Did he tell
you that he was there endeavoring to collect money? Answer. He did not. Question: Did he apply
to you for money? Answer. He did not. Question: Do you
remember having given him a letter to a gentleman who does business on Answer. Very likely I
may have done so. Question: Do you know
to whom he refers? Answer. Mr. George L.
Stearns. Question: Does Mr.
Stearns live in Medford? Answer. Yes, sir. Question: You say that
John Brown, jr., did not tell you the object of his visit to Boston? Answer. He did not. Question: Did you
learn it from any other source? Answer.
I did not. I had a very strong impression that he had some business of
his own,
and otherwise wanted to see the friends of his father. Question: Do you
remember why you gave him the letter to Mr. Stearns? Answer. As one of his
father's friends. Question: Was it at
your own suggestion, or at his request? Answer.
I cannot say. Probably I might have heard his father speak of Mr.
Stearns. He
was a warm friend of the father and mother and the whole family. Question: Did you
inquire from him, or learn from him at that time, where his father was? Answer. I did not
learn. Question: Do you remember
to have inquired where he was, or what he was doing? Answer. I do not
remember whether I did or did not. I infer that I did not, because I
had no
knowledge of his whereabouts. Of course, if I had gained it from him or
anybody
else, I should probably have remembered it. Question: Did you have
any knowledge of where .John Brown was, from the time you saw him in
Boston, in
1859, until the outbreak at Harper's Ferry? Answer. Not the
slightest knowledge of his whereabouts. I was probably as much
astonished when
I heard of his turning up at Harper's Ferry, as the chairman of this
committee
was. Question: You said you
would probably recollect the name of the secretary of the Massachusetts
State
Kansas Committee. Can you give it to us now? Answer. His name is
Parnell. Question: Where does
he reside? Answer. He does
business in Boston, and probably resides in one of the small towns in
the
vicinity. Question: Did you know
a young man named Francis J. Meriam? Answer. I did, very
slightly. Question: Have you
seen him since the affair at Harper's Ferry? Answer. I have. Question: Where did
you see him? Answer. At the St.
Lawrence Hotel, in Question: Did he tell
you of what occurred at Harper's Ferry? Answer. He did not. Question: Did he make any reference to it in
any form in conversation? Answer. He began to
talk about it, but I checked him. He applied to me. I do not know that
I should
volunteer any information further than to show that I am in a position
to aid
all purposes of proper investigation. He called upon me in the summer
of 1859,
and made my first acquaintance. I saw that he was in a state of mental
excitement
bordering on insanity. He wanted to know if I knew the whereabouts of
John
Brown. I told him that I did not; and I thought, moreover, that if I
did, I
would not tell him. When I next saw him, he was in the same wild state.
I had
my luggage all packed, and the porter was in the room to take it down
to the
cars in order that I might return to Boston, when he came in. That was
at
Montreal. I saw that he was in a state of painful excitement, and
declined
talking to him. . Question: Did he tell
you, or undertake or commence to tell you, of any reason why that
attack was
made precipitately at an earlier day that had been contemplated? Answer. He did not. He
began a wild talk, and I stopped: him. I said, "Mr. Meriam, you see I
am
going away;" and I knew too much of excitable men to wish to lead them
on
to a topic which was exciting to them. Question: Do you know
a Negro man named Lewis Hayden? Answer. I know him
slightly. Question: Do you know
of any connection that he had with the affairs of Brown? Answer. Nothing but
what I have seen in the papers. Question: Can you tell
the committee where Meriam is now? Answer. I cannot. Question: You have
spoken of having made various contributions to John Brown, and one is
given
here of $50; can you recollect any others, and at what time they were
made? Answer. I cannot
recollect at what time, but I looked at my check book before I came
away, and I
found that I had given what I supposed was to John Brown $50. I set
apart as
much of my income every year for anti-slavery purposes as I can. Question:
Were you the recipient of contributions from others for John Brown? Answer.
During the time I was on the committee. Question:
Were those contributions for Brown or for what you have spoken
of-aiding in the
defense of freedom in Kansas? Answer. They were for
John Brown, to be used at his discretion. During the Kansas troubles,
the
contributions were for aiding the cause of freedom in Kansas, and
afterwards I
received contributions for him. Question: Up to what
period did those contributions come in? Answer. I think during
all of 1858. Question: Were they
transmitted to John Brown? Answer. I think not
directly. I think that only part of them went to John Brown. The late
transactions I cannot speak of with so much certainty; but the former
ones I
know were never directly transmitted to him. Question:
Was a memorandum kept of the mode in which the money was disposed of? Answer.
Certainly, everything was clearly recorded; I mean everything in regard
to
Kansas matters. Question: Amongst the
records you can send to this committee? Answer. Yes. Question: Can you
state the time when you last saw John Brown the elder? Answer. It was in the
spring or early summer of 1859. Question: Did you ever
hear at any time that he was passing elsewhere by the name of John
Smith? Answer .
Never. Question: You have
spoken of having seen John Brown the younger in Boston; can you tell
when it
was that you last saw him anywhere? Answer.
I am sure I never saw John Brown, jr., but once, and that was when he
called on
me at Boston. Question: You say that
the money of which you have spoken was given to John Brown, to be used
at his
discretion after the Kansas troubles were over, for I presume they
would be
considered as over in 1858. What disposition was it expected he would
make of
it? Answer. I do not know
that I could say what disposition I thought he would make of it; I
supposed
that he was a practical anti-slavery man, and I was not inclined to
scrutinize,
having great confidence in him as a man. Mr. COLLAMER. To
prevent any misunderstanding about these contributions, I desire to ask
a Question:
Were not the contributions received by the committees, which were made
by the
people in Boston and Massachusetts, for and during the Kansas troubles? Answer. For that
definite purpose. Mr. COLLAMER. Was any
money of those contributions ever sent to Brown after 1858? Answer. Not that I
know of. The
CHAIRMAN. But there were other contributions that were sent to him
after the
fall of 1858, and I understand you that they were to be used at his
discretion. The WITNESS. I had
personal knowledge of several small sums. Question:
Was there any limit imposed upon his discretion, as far as you know, by
your
act or that of others, in the use of the money that was given to him? Answer. No further
than the confidence he inspired among his friends by two opinions
entertained
by him, one of which was that he was opposed to promoting insurrection
among
the slaves, and another was that he was opposed to shedding human blood
except
in self-defense. Question: Where did he
make those declarations? Answer.
More than once, in the presence of my friends and .in my own presence,
because
I had arguments with him on the general matter of practical
anti-slavery, and
I knew his sentiments; his declarations were clear and explicit, and I
had the
utmost confidence in them. Question: Do you know
of any plan he had devised, or proposed to devise, to get the slaves
off from
the Southern States without promoting insurrection-abducting them,
or seducing
them away, or anything of that sort? Answer. I know of no
definite recent plans of his; he was secretive. Question: What do you
mean by his being secretive? Answer.
I mean that he was a man not accustomed to reveal his thoughts
unnecessarily to
anyone, that he was not a communicative man. Secretiveness, I recognize
as one
of the human faculties; that word I use, though in no improper or
disrespectful
sense. Question: You have
spoken of a fund of a thousand dollars, or thereabouts, that was
subscribed to
purchase a homestead for Brown's family; was that investment actually
made? Answer. It was actually
made, I think. Question: Was it made
by passing that money through Brown's hands? Answer.
My impression is that it did not pass through his hands; on that point
I cannot
answer definitely. Question:
Then the fifty dollars spoken of in your note could not have been for
that
purchase? Answer. About that I
cannot say; I have ransacked my memory to know whether it was, and I
cannot say
distinctly whether it was or not; I contribute all the money I can for
what I
consider good purposes, and I am not accustomed to make any distinct
memoranda about
it. By Mr. DOOLITTLE: Question: In all your
conversation or communication with Brown, had you ever, at any time,
from him
any intimation of an organized attempt or effort, on his part to be
made, to
produce an insurrection among the slaves in the slave States of the
South? Answer. Never. S.G. Howe I would add that, on
careful consideration, I think I was mistaken about the application of
the
fifty dollars referred to in the torn paper. It could not have been
part of the
money for the purchase of the homestead. I am convinced, moreover,
that the
purchase of the homestead was a bona fide transaction,
and the money was given mainly, I think, by
persons who would not have countenanced any direct interference with
slavery in
the slave States. S. G. H. |