Testimony
of Raymond Mhlaba, defendant
Cross-Examination by Percy Yutar:
Yutar: Who were the
members of the ANC in Port
Elizabeth?
Mhlaba: I’m afraid I can’t
assist you there.
Yutar: You are taking up the
same attitude as Sisulu and Kathrada? In fact I have just heard an
aside that
you are all going to take up this same attitude!
Mhlaba: According
to what I understand,
yes.
Yutar: Who gave you instructions
not to
divulge their names?
Mhlaba: Nobody
gave us instructions.
Yutar: But you are all acting
alike?
Mhlaba: We are
acting alike because we
feel that it is not in the interests of the organizations and not in
the
interests of the oppressed people in this country.
Yutar: But you have taken an oath. Does
that mean anything to you? What does it mean to you?
Mhlaba: It
means that I must assist this
court insofar as I can, in giving evidence.
Yutar: I want to put it to you that in
December 1961 [when the first acts of sabotaged took place] you were
either in Port Elizabeth
or in Leipzig?
Barrage, defense
attorney: The witness should be; warned by your Lordship in
regard to the latter part of the question as to whether he was in Leipzig. That is
a question
which might tend to incriminate him on another charge, and under those
circumstances he need not answer it.
Justice de Wet: You need not necessarily answer the question which may
be an admission
that you left the country without getting the necessary permit. It
doesn’t
follow that if you left for Leipzig
you didn’t have a permit. But if you feel that the question
incriminates you,
you can refuse to answer it on those grounds.
Yutar: I want to
tell you Mhlaba, on
behalf of the Attorney General, that here and now in the presence of
his
Lordship, I grant you full indemnity for any prosecutions so you
needn’t worry
about incriminating yourself.
Mhlaba: My Lord, I am not taking your assurance.
Yutar: Even though I state
it in open court, in the presence of the presiding judge? I give you
the solemn assurance in open court, and
every word I am speaking is being taken down, that I grant you here and
now
full indemnity, and that no prosecution will be instituted again you no
matter
what offences you might have committed as a result of your leaving the
country
without permit, so you need not worry about it.
[Mhlaba again refused to answer.
]
Justice de Wet: The position is, Mhlaba,
that you say you were not in Port Elizabeth on 16
December, but you refuse to tell the court where you were on that date
Is that the position?
[Mhlaba agreed that it was.]
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