Testimony of Eden Shea in the Patty Hearst Trial
(Shea was a security guard at the Hibernia Bank when it was robbed on April 15, 1974 by an S.L.A. gang that included Patricia Hearst.)

MR. BROWNING: Call Edward (sic) Shea.

THE COURT: Mr. Shea, would you step forward and be sworn.

EDEN E. SHEA, called as a witness on behalf of the plaintiff, having been first duly sworn, was examined and testified as follows:

THE CLERK: Will you give the Court and jury your full name, please, and spell your last name?

THE WITNESS: My name is Eden E. Shea, S-h-e-a.

THE CLERK: And how do you spell your first name?



Q. What is your business or residence address, Mr. Shea?

A. My --

Q. Your address, sir?

A. My address?

Q. Business or residence .

A. 2100 Grant Street.

Q. In San Francisco?

A. San Francisco.

Q. And are you employed at the present time, sir?

A. Yes, I am.

Q. And were you employed in the same capacity on April 15, 1974?

A. No, sir.

Q. What is your present occupation, and what was

A. -Manager of an apartment house.

Q. What were you doing as of April 15, 1974?

A. I was a guard.

Q. All right. And where were you a guard?

A. At the Hibernia Bank.

Q. And do you recall -- that's the Sunset Office of the Hibernia Bank?

A. Yes, sir.

Q. Do you recall whether you were on duty that day, April 15, 1974?

A. What's that?

Q. Were you on duty as a guard at the Hibernia on April 15?

A. I was.

Q. And were you in uniform?

A. I was in uniform, sir.

Q. Yes. And when had you commenced your duty at that bank on that morning, do you recall?

A. What?

Q. What time did the bank open that day?

A. The bank opened at 9:000' clock.

Q. And were you there at 9:00?

A. I was there.

Q. Now, did anything unusual happen or come to your attention at approximately 9:40 to 9:45 on that morning?

A. Yes, sir.

Q. Describe what that was, please?

A. I saw four men -- four persons in the doorway.

Q. And were you able to tell whether these four persons were males or females or combination of both?

A. Not at that particular moment, no.

Q. Did you later?

A. I did.

Q. And what were their sexes?

A. It was two males and two females.

Q. And what happened after the individuals came into the bank?

A. They were at the entrance to the bank for a split second in unison.

Q. They were all together?

A. Together, abreast, four of them.

Q. Uh-huh (affirmative).

A. And they stepped forward then divided.

Q. And they divided?

A. They divided, two and two.

Q. And I take it you mean two went one way and two went the other way, is that correct?

A. That's right.

Q. All right. With respect to -- did two of them turn right?

A. Two of them turned right.

Q. To their right?

A. To their right.

Q. And were those men or women or could you tell?

A. One female and one black man.

Q. All right. Now, so that there's no misunderstanding: Mr. Shea, you were looking at these people from where?

A. From my stand near the back of the building.

Q. And so, did they turn to your right or to their own right, the male and the female?

A. The male and female went to the east end of the bank.

Q. To the east end of the bank?

A. Right.

Q. That would be to their right as they come in the door, is that right?

A. That's correct.

Q. And what happened to the other two?

A. The other two: They -- the female, white female, and black male were in the main aisle and separated about -- six feet from the entrance to the President's


Q. All right. And this was also a male and a female?

A. Male and a female. .

Q. And was this male -- attired in any particular way that you could recall?

A. He had a floppy hat.

Q. And how close were -- was that male to you at that time?

A. I would say less than seven feet.

Q. And what about the female?

A. Female was just a little bit further back.

Q. How far?

A. About seven-eight feet.

Q. Seven to eight feet. Now, did the male say anything to you at this time?

A. He didn't say anything to me directly.

Q. What did he say at all?

A. He announced the fact that it was a holdup and that this was a Symbionese Liberation Army also. 

Q. Excuse me. Mr. Shea, did he say this is the Symbionese Liberation Army, or did he say this is the SLA?

A. I believe he said Symbionese Liberation Army.

Q. Did you see any weapons at that time?

A. Yes.

Q. I show you Government1s Exhibit No. 19 for identification and ask whether the weapon you saw was similar at all to this particular weapon?

A. Oh, yes, very much so.

Q. Did you see more than one weapon?

A. Yes, there was two -- each one, the female also had a weapon.

Q. And was it also similar to No. 16 that I've just shown you.

A. That's right.

Q. It appeared to be sawed-off?

A. Sawed-off, yes.

Q. I'll direct your attention, Mr. Shea, to Government's Exhibit 12-Y through 12-EE and ask you if you can identify in those photographs the male and the female you've just been speaking about who confronted you in the entryway of the bank?

A. This one right here.

Q. All right. Would you take, please, a marking pencil. I have one here. And just draw an arrow to the person you've just designated, please? That's correct. Okay. Would you put a 1 under the first marking you've made there designating the female and a 2 designating the male? That's correct. Thank you.

Q. Mr. Shea, I show you Government Exhibit 15 for identification. Can you tell me whether that individual is one that you saw enter or inside the bank -- enter the bank or that you saw inside the bank?

A. I saw?

Q. Did you see this individual?

A. Yes, absolutely.

Q. Do you believe that to be a male or a female?

A. It's a female.

Q. Was she one of the individuals who turned to her right as she entered the door, to your left?

A. That's right.

Q. I see.

THE COURT: Is this male or female, picture of a male?

MR. BROWNING: This -- well, it has not been identified as yet.

THE COURT: I'm not asking who it is. I want to know if it's a picture of a male or female.

MR. BROWNING: I think I can represent to the Court it's a female wearing pants.

THE COURT: That may well be. But I want to know what he said.

MR. BROWNING: He said it's a female.

THE COURT: That's all I want to know. He's the witness, you're not.

MR. BROWNING: Absolutely.

THE COURT: All right, proceed. And are you offering-is this already in evidence?

MR. BROWNING: I'll not offer this at this point.

THE COURT: You showed it to him, Plaintiff's Exhibit 15.

It ought to be identified.

MR. BROWNING: It is identified for identification, Your Honor, 15.

THE COURT: All right. Plaintiff's 15.

THE CLERK: Plaintiff's 15 marked for identification.

(Plaintiff's Exhibit No. 15 marked for identification. Photograph.)

MR. BROWNING: Q. I'll show you next Government's Exhibit 16 for identification. Can you tell us whether you saw that individual go inside the bank?

A. I did.

Q. And is that a woman or a male?

A. Female.

Q. Now, which individual was that? Was that the one -- one of those individuals who turned to the right or the individuals who confronted you, to the best of your knowledge and belief?

A. This looks like the second one that first turned to the right.

But I did not get a good look at her.

Q. I understood you to say earlier that it was a male and a female that turned to the right.

A. It was two females. I can say that. Yes, that would be the case.

Q. All right.

MR. BROWNING: May we have that photograph marked as Government's Exhibit 16 for identification?

THE CLERK: Government's 16 marked for identification.

(Plaintiff's Exhibit No. 16 marked for identification. Photograph.) MR. BROWNING: Q. Show you, finally, Government's Exhibit 17 for identification. Tell me whether you saw that individual inside the bank at all?

A. I did see that inside the bank, but this was when she was leaving.

Q. I see. You did not

A. -I'm sorry, sorry, sorry. Take it back. I did not see her leave the bank. I only saw the photos of it, that's what I'm saying.

Q. You did not see the individual at the time you were in the bank as depicted in Government's 17 for identification. We'll submit that for identification also.

THE CLERK: Plaintiff's 17 marked for identification.

THE COURT: All right.

(Plaintiff's Exhibit No. 17 marked for identification. Photograph.) MR. BROWNING: Q. All right. You've told us I believe that -- the male who had a weapon came toward you. What happened then, Mr. Shea?

A. Male that had the weapon went over to the little area for the safe deposit box -- office, put the gun over the railing and threatened the girl to get out of that place.

Q. Was that Sharon Zicanese as you know her name?

A. No -- yes, that's it, Sharon.

Q. Now Fullmer, right?

A. Right.

Q. What were you doing at this time, sir?

A. I was standing there watching the performance.

Q. Did you -- were you armed at the time, sir?

A. I was.

Q. Did you have an opportunity to draw your weapon?

A. No, I didn't.

Q. And were any weapons pointed at you, sir?

A. Yes, sir. - ,

Q. Who pointed -- which one of these people pointed the weapon?

A. The female.

Q. And I direct your attention, again, to -- Government's Exhibit 12-DD. That is the female you are referring to?

A. Yes, that's the female.

Q. That female pointed her weapon at you, is that correct?

A. Yes.

Q. How far away were you from her at that time?

A. I'd say about eight or nine feet. And what if anything did she say at this time?

A. She said a few things. Amongst them, she said: "First person that puts up his head, I'll blow his mother-fucking head off." Q. What happened next?

A. Just after the male Negro got through with the girl in the little office, he turned to me and said: "Get back in the area." I spun around to go back to the area, and then he held me up, come behind me and took the gun away from me. And then I went ahead of the area to go lay down on the floor.

Q. Tell us, first of all, Mr. Shea, where you laid down on the floor?

A. Well, it was -- I was the other bunch that was on the floor, the second section of the counters.

Q. All right. Which counter was that, one of these check desks here?

A. It was between the middle one and the last one.

Q. Between this one and this one?

A. In between those two.

Q. I have a little metallic object marked bank guard which -- insert on the chart at that point. Was that approximately the position where you lay down, Mr. Shea?

A. That's where I was, yeah.

Q. All right . Now, have you seen the motion pictures made from the bank's surveillance camera photographs?

A. Yes, I have.

Q. And are you depicted in those movies?

A. Yes.

Q. Incidentally, the weapon that you were carrying that day, can you describe it for us, please?

A. It was a .38 Smith & Wesson.

Q. A revolver?

A. Revolver, six-shot.

Q. Have you ever seen that weapon again?

A. I have not.

Q. Do you know the serial number of that weapon at this time?

A. I do not know it.

Q. Do you know who would know it?

A. I wouldn't know it, no.

Q. Was the weapon supplied to you by your employer?

A. That' s so.

Q. Who was that at that time?

A. Young Patrol.

Q. Young Patrol. All right. Mr. Shea, I'II show you Government's Exhibit 21 for identification which is a Smith & Wesson revolver and ask whether that appears to be the weapon that you were carrying on that date?

A. This is not the one, but it's one like it.

Q. All right. Mr. Shea, let me -- I remove this from the plastic bag that it was in. Would you examine that again and tell me how you know that's not the same one?

A. The stock doesn't seem to be the same. I don't recall that kind of weapon -- in here.

Q. Are you sure it's not the same one or not?

A. I'm not sure. It doesn't look like it.

Q. But in any event, it was a weapon similar to that, is that right?

A. It was similar, yes.

MR. BROWNING: May we have that marked for identification as 21, please?

THE CLERK: Plaintiff's 21 marked for identification.

THE COURT: 21 marked for identification.

(Plaintiff's Exhibit No. 21 marked for identification. Revolver.) MR. BROWNING: Q. Now, prior to the time the male individual removed the revolver from you, Mr. Shea, you indicated to us that -- you saw a female individual in that general area whom you've identified who's previously been identified as the defendant. Can you tell me whether you at any time saw the defendant's hands?

A. No, I don't recall seeing where she had her hands.

Q. Were her hands visible to you at any time?

A. I didn't notice.

Q. Did you ever see anyone pointing their weapon at that person, that is, at the defendant?

A. No.

Q. Now, after you lay down on the floor, did you see anything after that?

A. I didn't see anything.

Q. Did you hear anything?

A. I heard an explosion.

Q. An explosion?

A. Explosion, a blast -- all I know it was.

Q. Where did it appear to be coming from?

A. Well, from the forward end of the bank where I stand.

Q. Would you describe -- was it similar to a gunshot?

A. That's the first time I ever heard a gunshot like that if that was it.

Q. It was a loud noise?

A. Very loud, blast like an explosion.

Q. What else did you hear, anything?

A. A few seconds after that, there was a second blast.

Q. And did you hear anything else?

A. Nothing.

Q. Did you hear any words spoken at all?

A. Nothing was said.

MR. BROWNING: All right, thank you. I have no further questions.

THE COURT: Any cross-examination?

MR. BROWNING: I'm sorry, I do have one more.

Q. Where was the defendant when you saw her pointing her weapon when she spoke the words you indicated?

A. She was standing just the other side of the President's office entrance.

Q. The managers office?

A. Right, manager's office.

Q. And where was her weapon pointed at that time?

A. I suppose it was pointed in the general area. I couldn't say just precisely.

Q. What general area?

A. In the area of the -- bank itself, the auditorium.

Q. That is, referring to the customers lobby?

A. Right.

Q. Mr. Shea, the female we just have been discussing, can you tell me whether she's in Court this afternoon?

A. Yes, she is. ..

Q. Would you indicate to the Court and the jury who she is, please?

A. She's over there next to the attorney.

Q. All right. Which individual are you referring to now? We have to be specific about this.

A. You want her name?

Q. No, I want you to point out who she is.

A. Right over there.

Q. Can you describe her?

A. She's --

Q. What table is she sitting at, Mr. Shea?

A. What's that?

Q. What table is she sitting at? Is she sitting at a table?

A. The defense attorneys' table.

Q. That's this table here?

A. Right.

Q. And can you tell me whether at the time you saw the defendant in the bank she was different at all as to her appearance?

A. Hard to say. But generally speaking she looks about the same.

Q. Was her hair the same?

A. - Long flowing, yes.

Q. Was it the same color?

A. I don't know.

MR. BROWNING: Thank you. I have no further questions.

THE COURT: Now, you may cross-examine.

MR. BAILEY: Thank you, Your Honor.


Q. What is your age, Mr. Shea?

A. Sixty-eight.

Q. How long were you a bank guard?

A. Oh, about seven months.

Q. I take it this was your first robbery?

A. It is.

Q. What was the first thing you did when you realized that something was wrong in the bank?

A. Well, I knew there was something wrong I put my hands up.

Q. And the other things that have happened to you, as you've described to us, all occurred subsequent to the time you put your hands up?

A. I had my hands up and I heard somebody yell it was a holdup.

Q. But you told us about a number of incidents, including a speech about what would happen, did that happen -I had my hands up the minute they entered the place.

Q. I understand that. Now, please, the things that you've told us about all took place after you first raised your hands, is that correct?

A. Yes.

Q. All right. Now, you've identified some photographs. Let me see those. Showing you 17, 16, and 15, Government's exhibits.

Q. Have you been given the name of any of these people?

A. I have read about them.

Q. I mean, has the Government told you the names of the people?

A. No, just learned

Q. -So as of today, you can't affix a name to any of these photographs, is that correct?

A. Not now, no.

Q. All right. What was the general description of the lady who threatened you? What did she look like?

A. No lady threatened me.

Q. I thought somebody was going to blow your mother-fucking head off?

A. No, she said that to the general public.

Q. You didn't think you were included?

Well-In any event, describe the lady?

A. The lady is sitting over there at your table.

THE COURT: He wants to know what she looked like then.

THE WITNESS: She had a flowing jacket. She had a gun.

THE COURT: What color hair?

THE WITNESS: I don't know the color of the hair.

MR. BAILEY: Q. Red hair like this, I take it?

A. Something like that.

Q. Something like that. All right. I wonder if you would be good enough, Mr. Shea, to go to the board and point out to us -- I'm going to give you these photographs -- where you saw each of the people depicted in each of these photos. If you'll just give the numbers for the moment. First, show us once again where you were standing.

A. Right here.

Q. All right.

THE COURT: Mr. Shea, will you stand so the jurors can see you when you point? You better give him a pointer.

MR. BAILEY: Government's pointer, please?

Step back and using the pointer

-THE COURT: Mr. Shea, would you step back?

THE WITNESS: I was standing here.

MR. BAILEY: So the jurors may see. Further back. All right. May we have the marking pen?

You've pointed to an X. I'll put an S there. I'm handing you Government's 15. Tell me where you saw that lady in the bank and what she did?

A. I didn't see her.

Q. You did not see Exhibit 15 in the bank?

A. No.

Q. Did you identify that photo a few minutes ago for Mr. Browning?

A. Yes, as having seen the photos, movies.  I'm sorry?

THE COURT: Will you speak up, Mr. Shea? Will you speak up more loudly?

THE WITNESS: I will, sir.

Q. I hand 16 -- 17, rather, and ask you where, if at all, you saw that person in the bank.

A. I believe I saw her going to the east end of the bank.

Q. All right. Would you show us the east end of the bank.

The witness indicates, for the record, that from the entry door, the party in Exhibit 17 came in, made a right turn and moved toward the right of the diagram. Now, as to 16, would you tell me if you sow that lady and where.

A. I don't recall seeing this lady enter the bonk.

Q. You never sow her in the bank?

A. Right. No.

Q. I am placing a 17 here and indicating her path of travel. Do you agree with that?

(Witness nods head.)

Q. Now, did you make any movements in the bank at all, other than to go from where the green X is to where the point of the arrow you have drawn is shown?

A. I did not make any motions.

Q. Did you go anywhere in the bank at any time other than that path?

A. No, sir.

Q. All right. Would you take the stand.

THE COURT: Would you give the pointer to Mr. Bailey, and would you return to the witness stand, please. Are you through?

MR. BAILEY: Oh, no.

THE COURT: All right. Would you return here, please, Mr. Shea.

MR. BAILEY: Q. When did you first see the film that was made up re-enacting -- or a portion of the bank robbery?

A. It was in the Office of the Attorney General.

Q. Of the Attorney General?

A. Yes.

Q. You mean Mr. Browning?

A. Yes.

Q. Oh, okay. How long after April 15th did that occur?

A. That was this month sometime, rather, January.

Q. January of 1976?

A. Yes.

Q. You have never seen it before?

A. I have seen movie pictures of it, but not direct movies with the Attorney General's Office.

Q. What movies of the Attorney General's Office are you talking about?

A. I am talking about TV.

Q. Pardon me?

A. I am talking about TV movies.

Q. You saw TV movies. What were those?

A. Well, the general substantive matter of the holdup.

Q. When did you first see motion pictures depicting the holdup in progress in which you recognized yourself as one of the people depicted?

A. A couple of days after the holdup.

Q. Okay. Now, on the day after the holdup, did a Special Agent of the Federal Bureau of Investigation come to talk to you?

A. On the day of the holdup, they talked to me.

Q. And on the day following the holdup, were you interviewed?

A. Yes.

Q. By a special agent?

A. Right. ..

Q. And did he tell you that it was his lawful responsibility to make an investigation of what had happened?

A. I guess he did, I don't recall.

Q. Did you understand that it was your legal responsibility to tell him everything you could about what had happened?

A. Yes, sir.

Q. Did you then tell him one day after the robbery everything that you could remember to the best of your ability?

A. I did.

Q. All right. Did you give him the best descriptions you could of the people that you thought you had seen in the bank?

A. I did.

Q. Did you give him all these things you had heard said in the bank to the best of your ability?

A. Yes, sir.

Q. And this was 24 hours or a little more after the robbery happened, is that right?

A. Yes.

MR. BAILEY: Okay. Now, Miss Hearst, would you rise for a moment, please.

Q. What would you say, Mr. Shea, that the height and weight of this young lady are, as best you can gauge it?

A. About five feet six.

Q. Five six.

A. Yes. A hundred and twenty.

Q. A hundred and twenty pounds.

A. Yes.

MR. BAILEY: Okay. Thank you.

Q. Now, do you remember the name of the special agent with whom you talked?

A. Mr. -- I can't recall at the moment.

Q. You can't recall. But he's the gentleman to whom you gave all the information you could then recollect?

A. That's right.

Q. And you didn't hold anything back, right?

A. No, no.

Q. Did you tell him that the male Negro declared, "This is a holdup"?

A. Yes.

Q. And that he was carrying a rifle or a carbine?

A. That is right.

Q. And that he walked directly towards you and focused his attention on the safe deposit vault clerk.

A. He walked over to me, he walked to the vault area where the girl was sitting.

Q. I am asking you if you told the agent, quote, that the male Negro walked directly toward you.

A. I don't recall saying that.

Q. All right. Did you tell him that he had told the young lady, the bank vault clerk, out from behind the counter?

A. I said he escorted the girl out from behind the counter.

Q. " Escorted" ?

A. Well, he took her out.

Q. You said he grabbed her by the arm.

A. Well, okay, he grabbed her by the arm then.

Q. You remember telling that to the agent?

A. I don't recall -- I don't remember saying that specifically.

Q. You then said to the agent that the male Negro directed you to enter the lobby and place yourself in a prone position on the floor face down.

A. Right .

Q. And that you did that.

A. I did it.

Q. All right. And that as the male Negro turned to his left to enter the lobby, he spotted your weapon and took it away from you?

A. Right.

Q. You then entered the lobby of the bank and situated yourself on the floor between the first and second customer service counters facing down?

A. Right, sir.

Q. And you did not observe any other activity thereafter, correct?

A. No, no, sir.

Q. All right. That is correct, is it not?

A. Right .

Q. While you were on the floor, you told the agent, on April 16th, 1974, you heard two shots.

A. Right, sir.

Q. Now, did you tell him about hearing the second burst of fire, or don't you remember?

A. If he asked me, I probably did, but I don't recall him not asking the question.

Q. You mean you reported the first two shots, but because he didn't ask you, you didn't tell him about the other two?

A. I didn't hear any other two, I never said anything about that.

Q. All right.

A. I don't think he asked me about two other shots.

Q. Well, what is your testimony today, were there two bursts of fire or one?

A. I only heard two bursts of fire.

Q. Okay. Now, the agent talked to you about a female white bandit, correct?

A. Right.

Q. And you told him that she, after entering the bank, situated herself in line with the entrance approximately ten feet from the door, right?

A. Ten feet from me.

Q. Did you tell the agent ten feet from the door, sir?

A. I don't remember the dimensions I gave him.

Q. Did you make this statement, “The female white bandit after entering the bank situated herself in line with the entrance of the bank approximately ten feet from the door,” did you say that or did you not?

A. I don't recall.

Q. Is it the truth?

A. Could be.

Q. Well, didn't you do your best to give this agent the truth the day after the robbery?

A. I gave him the best I could.

Q. All right. If you said that on that date, that is probably what happened, right?

A. That is probably what happened, if it's written down that way, and he says I said it.

Q. Okay. Now, did you tell the agent that you could not recall any specific activity on her part, but did recall her directing comments to people at the bank using profanity and threatening to shoot the first person to move?

A. I did.

Q. All right. Did you tell the agent that she was carrying a weapon, but you could not give him any description of that weapon?

A. I did.

Q. Now, you have told us that you heard the male Negro say, “We are the Symbionese Liberation Army"?

A. Right.

q. All right. Did you tell the agent that you heard nobody say anything about the SLA?

A. I don't recall ever telling him that.

Q. All right. If you did tell the agent that on the day after, wouldn't that be correct?

A. Yes.

Q. Okay. Because your memory then, I take it, was somewhat more fresh than it is now.

A. Yes, sir.

Q. Okay. Did you tell the agent that you, at no time, heard anyone use the word, "Tania”?

A. I don't -- what did you soy? Sorry, I didn't hear you.

Q. Pardon me?

A. I didn't hear.

Q. Did you tell the agent who interrogated you the day after the robbery that at no time did you hear anyone use the word "Tania" ?

A. I did not hear anybody say that.

Q. Okay. Now, you gave a description of the male Negro, did you not?

A. I probably did.

Q. And you said -- you gave his height, weight, approximate age, build, complexion, said that he was bearded, and said that he was clear and did not speak with a recognizable Negro dialect, is that right?

A. As I recall it, no.

Q. Okay. As to the second bandit, the only other one you were able to describe to the agent, you said she was female, white, size three, 130 pounds, right?

A. Right.

Q. And that was the best information you could give in that short period after the incident.

A. That is right.

Q. Which bandit were you talking about when you gave those dimensions?

A. Two bandits in the aisle, the main aisle.

Q. All right. Would you now, please, go to the diagram and point out for the jury the position of the female bandit you were describing when you spoke with the agent on April 16th and told him that she was ten feet from the door and using profanity, could you do that, please, sir.

A. Right here.

Q. Right here?

A. Right there.

MR. BAILEY: May the record show I have indicated with a F the position shown by the witness as to the female bandit.

Thank you. Would you resume the stand.

THE COURT: Mr. Bailey, when you come to a convenient place in your cross-examination, we will take our mid-afternoon recess, whenever that suits your convenience. It's almost 2:45.

What I am saying is, when it comes to 2:45 – it’s not yet there, I am just telling you.

MR. BAILEY: Your Honor, I have no objection to recessing now. And I will be a little bit longer with the witness. Do I understand the rule the witness may not speak to either party until the examination is complete?

THE COURT: Of course, I am -- he can talk to either party, he is a witness. You can talk to him if you want to.

You had better have your examination for ten more minutes.

MR. BAILEY: All right. We will go a little more further.

Q. Now, after giving the description which I have read to you about the female bandit, did you tell the agent you were unable to provide any additional information regarding her?

A. I did. .

Q. And you told him you were unable to provide any descriptive data regarding the two individuals, the other two who entered the bank.

A. That is right, sir.

Q. At some point, the agent returned and showed you some photographs, did he not?

A. Right.

Q. And he told you that they had been taken by the surveillance cameras of the bank, correct?

A. Right.

Q. While the robbery was in progress.

(Witness nods head.)

Q. And you knew those cameras were installed?

A. Right.

Q. And approximately how they worked.

A. Yes, sir.

Q. Okay. Now, he showed you a picture of a male Negro, did he not?

A. He did.

Q. And you said, "That is the man who disarmed me," correct?

A. I don't recall saying that.

Q. Well, you identified him as the bandit who disarmed you, is that correct?

A. Yes, I did.

Q. All right. And he showed you a number of pictures of female bandits?

A. Right.

Q. Recorded by the bank's camera, correct?

A. Yes.

Q. And after studying them, you said, " I am unable to recognize any of them," did you not?

A. I don't recall that.

Q. Well, if you said that on April 16th, it was likely the truth, wasn't it?

A. Could be, yes.

Q. All right. Now, my question is: When did you first find yourself able to identify a female, give me the date.

A. When I saw the motion pictures, TV.

Q. You mean you couldn't identify from still photographs?

A. No.

Q. But you identified from motion pictures?

A. Right .

Q. Have you been informed by anyone, sir, that the position marked by F where you have identified the female bandit was occupied by Nancy Ling Perry and not by the defendant?

A. No, no, I was never.

Q. Has anyone taken the time to show you these photographs and let you point out with a pointer as the cameras are rolling the people you could recognize?

A. Yes.

Q. What was the date when you first saw the motion picture that enabled you to make your identification?

A. About the second day after the holdup.

Q. The motion picture was ready the second day after the holdup?

A. No, that was the TV I am talking about, I remember those people then.

Q. What TV are you talking about?

A. TV they have -- the general public.

Q. Oh, you mean the bank photos that were released to the general public by somebody?

A. Right .

Q. Okay. All right. When did you first see them in connection with the official investigation?

A. Last month .

Q. Is that the first time that anyone representing the Attorney General here had shown you the

A.  -The pictures, yes.

Q. The photos.

A. The photos.

Q. All right. At no prior time

-THE COURT: You don't have to exalt the United States Attorney.

MR. BAILEY: I am anxious to recognize the promotion, Your Honor.

THE COURT: He is still the United States Attorney for the District, and that is the way we will recognize him. It’s true he represents the Attorney General here. You may proceed.

MR. BAILEY: Q. Is that the first time, sir, you have been shown this film depicting the bank robbery in motion?

A. Yes, at the office of the Attorney General's Office.

Q. That was this year.

A. Yes.

MR. BAILEY: Thank you. I think this is a convenient time for a break, Your Honor.

THE COURT: All right, sir. We will take the mid-afternoon recess at this time. While we are at recess, ladies and gentlemen, will you please remember the instructions heretofore given. We will be at recess for ten minutes.


THE COURT: The record will show that the defendant is present with counsel, and the Government is represented by Mr. Browning; that the jury is present and seated in the box and that Mr. Shea is in the witness stand. Now we can proceed with cross-examination.

MR. BAILEY: Yes, Your Honor.

Q. Mr. Shea, had you at any time prior to January 1976 identified any female bandits as being a particular person?

A. I don’t recall.

Q. All right. Who was it that played for you the film that you saw in January?

A. The Attorney General.

Q. Well, which one? We have several here at the table?

A. Mr. Browning.

Q. Mr. Browning was present himself?

A. Right.

Q. Who else was present in the room?

A. Some FBI agent and one of his assistants, Mr. -- Nerney.

Q. Mr. Nerney was there as well?

A. Yes.

Q. Okay. Now, prior to the time that the film was begun, did they review with you the report which showed that you couldn't identify any female on the day after the robbery?

A. I don't understand that question.

Q. Okay. Do you recall the interview you had with the agent?

A. Right .

Q. And do you recall that you told the agent that other than the male Negro you couldn’t identify any of the pictures he showed you, correct?

A. Right.

Q. Was that report reviewed with you before you saw the film?

A. I can't remember.

Q. Did you have some conversation with Mr. Browning about the purpose of showing you the film?

A. Just acclimate me with the procedure.

Q. To acclimate you with the procedure?

A. Yes.

Q. Was there even a vague suggestion that you might be able to identify anyone if you saw the film?

A. I don't recall anything like that.

Q. At what point during the film did you identify someone?

A. Oh, the first part of the film showed the general layout of the bank. I -- recognized two persons.

Q. Which film, do you recall? I take it you saw two of them?

A. What films?

THE COURT: Yes. There were two different films.

THE WITNESS: Oh, I don't recall which one that is. I gave you the notation that I identified them. I can refer back to them.

MR. BAILEY: Q. You gave them some notation?

A. No, what they gave me today. That's what I identified.

Q. Who gave you today?

A. Mr. Browning.

Q. What notations did he give you?

A. Not notations, photos.

THE COURT: Photos, what he was shown in court, what occurred in court is what you're referring to, Mr. Shea, isn't it correct? That what you told Mr. Bailey is what happened in court here?


THE COURT: All right.

MR. BAILEY: Q. When you saw a female in the film that you picked out, had you seen photos of that female before?

A. I have.

Q. On prior occasions you had not recognized her, is that right?

A. I would.

Q. You would?

A. I would.

Q. On the times prior to the time you saw this film in January, when you saw pictures of the same woman, you did not recognize her. Is that correct?

A. Recognized them on TVs.

Q. You recognized her in the TV?

A. Yeah.

Q. When was that?

A. Whenever they put the TV on.

Q. When was it?

A. I don't remember, numerous occasions they had them on.

Q. When was the first time?

A. I don't remember.

Q. Was it right after the robbery?

A. May have been, yes.

Q. Did you call the FBI and tell them that you recognized someone?

A. I did not.

Q. Did you tell anyone?

A. I didn't tell anybody.

Q. When was the first time that you told anybody that you recognized somebody on the TV?

A. I didn't tell anybody I recognized anybody from the TV.

Q. Did you recognize anyone on the TV?

A. I did.

Q. All right. When you came in to look at the film with Mr. Browning, did you say, “Oh, yes, I have seen that on TV, and I recognized one of the women"?

A. I might have, I don't recall.

Q. You don't remember if you said that?

A. No.

Q. All right. Now, as the film was rolling and you were viewing it, did you point out to Mr. Browning who you recognized?

A. Yes.

Q. Was it the person standing by the door where we have put an F on diagram

A. -That's right.

Q. Do you know that that is Nancy Ling Perry?

A. That is not Nancy

Q.  -Do you know that?

THE COURT: What did you say, Mr. Shea? Repeat what you said.

THE WITNESS: That is not Nancy Ling Perry.

MR. BAILEY: Pardon me.

Q. I will show you Government's 17, Mr. Shea, and ask you if that is the girl who was standing by the door?

A. You're talking about the door, main entrance door? I -- I'm talking about the door, the entrance to the manager's office.

That's what I thought you were talking about.

Q. You just pointed out from -- I put an F with an orange circle.

A. Right.

Q. That was where the lady who made the obscene remarks and threats was standing?

A. Right.

Q. Did you recognize, as Mr. Browning showed you-the film, that woman to be the one who made the threats?

A. Yes.

Q. All right. And that's the area where she stayed?

A. Right.

Q. When you were asked what the lady did, the one depicted in 17, you indicated she moved across the bank as shown by the orange –A. A. Right.

Q. All right. Now, has anyone from the Government pointed out to you that the films clearly show that that woman near position F was Nancy Ling Perry?

A. Nobody said about her being Nancy Ling Perry.

Q. Do you recognize this photo?

A. I do.

Q. Do you still say this photo is of a lady who walked across the bank?

A. That's right.

MR. BAILEY: Your Honor, may we have film A so the witness can point out to the jury -- point out to the jury where he saw this person go?

THE COURT: All right, turn out the lights.

MR. KIPPING: We'll have to load the film.

THE COURT: How long will it take?

MR. KIPPING: Just a couple minutes.

MR. BAILEY: Just the way the agent did, Your Honor.

THE COURT: How do you mean? I don’t know how he can do it on this screen.

MR. BAILEY: With the little electronic pointer.

THE COURT: All right. You can -- Do you understand how to use that, Mr. Shea, the electric pointer? Will you explain it to him, sir?

MR. BAILEY: May the record show , Your Honor, I'm handing the witness Government's 17. I think it's still for identification.

THE COURT: Yes, Government’s 17 for identification.

MR. BAILEY: To be very clear, Mr. Shea, I'm asking you to point out as the film rolls where this lady is and follow her, if you can, with this pointer.

Q. Follow her in this picture.

A. Okay.

THE COURT: All right. As soon as the man who is running the camera is ready to start, Mr. Shea, we'll proceed.

MR. BAILEY: May the entire film be shown, Your Honor?

THE COURT: If necessary.

MR. BAILEY: Counsel said it was his intention to do so.

THE COURT: Turn out the lights. All right, proceed.

(Film shown.)

MR. BAILEY: May we ask the witness if he sees the lady depicted in 17?

MR. LANGFORD: Obviously he doesn't. He hasn't said anything.

THE COURT: Do you see her?

THE WITNESS: The answer is yes.

THE COURT: And who is it?

THE WITNESS: It's the one depicted in this No. 17.

THE COURT: Yes. Does that satisfy you?

MR. BAILEY: Q. Now, Mr. Shea, will you indicate when and if you see Nancy Ling Perry in this film.

MR. BROWNING: Your Honor, may we know whether the person who shouted the obscenities is in this second film?

THE COURT: What was that?

MR. BROWNING: May we know from Mr. Shea whether the person who shouted the obscenities is also in this segment?

MR. BAILEY: I conclude my examination.

THE COURT; You can ask the question if you want it.

MR. BAILEY: May the record show that the witness just pointed to a lady who just leaving the bank, and may we agree, you say it is not?


THE COURT: All right.

MR. BAILEY: Thank you, Mr. Shea.

THE COURT: Would you proceed?

MR. BAILEY: Q. You realize you have just seen two different films, correct?

A. Yes.

Q. Shot by two different cameras in the bank where you were working?

A. Right.

Q. As the first film was rolling, you pointed your little arrow at a lady who was in and out of that entire film?

A. Right.

Q. You identified her as the lady depicted in Exhibit In Right.

And you now know that is Nancy Ling Perry?

A. Right .

Q. And you told us that that lady was standing right here, the one who shouted the obscenities, did you not, in your earlier

A. -That's not Ling Perry.

Q. Having just seen the film, you say it is not?

A. I didn't hear you.

Q. You agree that the lady that shouted the obscenities that you put the arrow on in the first film was shown in and out of this area?

A. No, that's a different picture entirely.

Q. Different picture entirely.

A. Right .

Q. Now, in the second film, which started out with you with your hands in the air?

A. Yes.

Q. And then showed you hustling across the bank. You pointed your arrow at a lady leaving the bank, right?

A. Right.

Q. Did you mean to indicate that that was the lady depicted in Exhibit 17?

A. That looked very much like her, right.

Q. You understand now that it was not Nancy Ling Perry but Camilla Hall?

A. I don't know what her name is. But that's the same picture that I recognize.

Q. You think you may have made a mistake in that identification?

A. It’s possible.

Q. All right. Did you at any time in the second film see the woman depicted in Exhibit 17 do what is indicated on this chart by No.

17 and the arrow, to wit, run across toward the eastern end of the bank? Did you see that?

A. I don't remember that.

Q. Well, you didn’t point to anything in the second film showing Nancy Ling Perry doing that, did you?

A. First time didn't show them entering the bank that end on the picture Just now.

Q. You -- were you saying that prior to the time the cameras started Nancy Ling Perry moved from this spot to the

A. -No, there was a picture of her going in that direction.

Q. Were you able to show us?

A. I don't recall seeing it on this picture just now.

Q. Pardon me?

A. I don't recall seeing her in that picture just now going that direction.

Q. What you're telling us is you remember Miss Perry going from 17 to where the arrows end but the cameras didn't show it?

A. No.

THE COURT: What are you saying? Mr. Shea, what are you saying, that the cameras didn't show

-THE WITNESS: First picture showed her going to the end of the bank, but I don't recall seeing her in the second section only coming out of the bank.

THE COURT: Did you fully understand Mr. Bailey's question?


MR. BAI LEY: Does the Government have the photos that were shown to Mr. Shea on April 16?

MR. BROWNING: I don't have them with me. I suppose we could get them.

MR. BAILEY: Will you stipulate that among those photos were a photo of the defendant?

MR. BROWNING: Yes, I'll stipulate there was a photo of the defendant but not taken from the bank robbery film, I don't


MR. BAILEY: Q. Mr. Shea, have you seen the photos taken from the bank surveillance cameras identified the male Negro in the photographs and was unable to identify any of the other bandits appearing in the bank surveillance photographs.

THE COURT: Is that a question of Mr. Shea or Mr. Browning?

MR. BAILEY: No, Your Honor, I'm reminding Mr. Browning there must be such photographs.

MR. BROWNING: Mr. Bailey, I consulted our records and apparently the picture of DeFreeze was a bank surveillance photograph shown to Mr. Shea. I don't know whether all of the others were or not.

MR. BAILEY: Is the Government unable to say what was meant by, other bandits appearing in the bank surveillance photographs as they were shown to Mr. Shea?

MR. BROWNING: I assume if that's what the report says that they were shown to Mr. Shea, yes.

MR. BAILEY: Q. Were some female bandits exhibited to you on April 16 the day after the robbery in photographic form?

A. I don’t get the question.

Q. You didn't understand the question?

A. No.

Q. All right. When the agent came to you on the day after the robbery and showed you pictures and you recognized one of the male Negro, were there pictures also of female bandits taken by the bank camera?

A. I don't recall that, that day.

Q. Will you examine and, without saying anything, tell me if it helps you to remember.

A. Yes, this is in substance correct.

Q. You say in substance that is correct?

A. That's correct.

Q. You have just read a paragraph which you claim is correct in substance which concludes, Mr. Shea advised that he was unable to identify any of the other bandits appearing in the bank surveillance photographs other than the male Negro, right?

A. Right .

Q. Okay. So that if a photograph of Miss Hearst was presented to you on that day which the Government has stipulated it was, you looked at it and said, "I cannot identify that person." Correct?

A. That's right.

Q. That's ri ght.

THE COURT: Are there -- is there any redirect?


Q. Mr. Shea, in the film that you saw, both in my office and the film you saw here today, do you recollect whether the film depicts any of those individuals coming through the door of the bank when they first came in?

A. No, it didn't -- didn't recognize them until after they got settled.

Q. I don't think you understand my question, Mr. Shea. When you looked at the movie.

A. Oh.

Q. What is the first thing the movie shows with respect to what you were doing? You're in the movie, are you not?

A. Yes.

Q. All right. What are you doing when the movie first comes on in that segment of the movie?

A. I don't understand that at all.

Q. Pardon me?

A. I don't understand the question.

Q. Did you see yourself in the movie?

A. Yes.

Q. What were you doing when you first saw yourself in the movie?

Q. Where were you, what were you doing?

A. Standing in my spot, and my hands were up.

Q. Right. All right. Now, was there a period of time before that time when you were standing there, as shown in the movies, with your hands up when these robbers were inside the bank?

A. Yes.

Q. There was?

A. Yes.

Q. And is that when the defendant pointed her weapon toward the customer lobby and said the words that you said she said?

A. That's right, correct.

Now, just one other question, Mr. Shea.

THE COURT: I take it, Mr. Browning, that you'll speak up? The PA system is having trouble.

MR. BROWNING: I understand.

THE COURT: Would you keep your voice elevated, Mr. Shea?

THE WITNESS: All right.

MR. BROWNING: May I have 21, please?

Directing your attention to Government 21 for identification, Mr. Shea, can you tell me

-MR. BAILEY: You Honor, that was not on cross. It's inappropriate for redirect.

THE COURT: I don't know that it was gone in on cross.

It was offered on direct.

MR. BROWNING: May I have leave to reopen my direct for one question, Your Honor?

THE COURT: All right, you can reopen your direct subject to further cross-examination.


Q. Mr. Shea, you testified, I believe, that you weren't sure whether this was the weapon you had with you on the 15th?

A. That's right.

Q. The weapon you had on the 15th: Did you take it home with you at night or not?

A. NO, never take it home.

Q. It was left at the bank when you left?

A. That's right.

MR. BROWNING: Thank you. I have no further questions.

THE COURT: Any recross? And in this you may cross-examine as far as --


Q.Do you recall right at the outset of cross-examination, Mr. Shear I asked you whether or not all those things that you described that happened, the threats by the woman, being disarmed by the male Negro, et cetera, occurred after you put your hands up?

A. No.

Q. Do you recall me asking you that question?

A. I don't recall.

Q. Do you recall saying, "Yes, that is right"?

A. No.

Q. Well, what do you now say, Mr. Shea?

A. Your voice is lower you will have to get it up.

Q. My voice is too low for you?

A. Yes, I can't hear you.

Q. Do you have a hearing problems sir?

A. I have a hearing problem.

Q. Did you have a hearing problem on the day of the bank robbery?

A. I probably did.

Q. Is it something for which you are treated?

A. Not recently -- not about that time, no.

Q. Had you been treated prior to that time?

A. Very much so.

Q. Do you know what the difficulty in your hearing is to what extent it's impaired?

A. It's impaired ear drum.

Q. It is impaired.

A. I had an operation.

Q. Okay. So you were having some difficulty, I take it, hearing on April 15th, 1974?

A. Right.

THE COURT: He says it was and still does.

MR. BAILEY: Yes, I understand.

Q. All right. Now, are you now telling the jury, Mr. Shear that what you claim the defendant did took place before that film started to roll?

A. I don't know what time the film started to roll, I wouldn't know that.

Q. Are you saying that it is something that happened and you remember, but is not shown on the film?

MR. BROWNING: I will object to that question as ambiguous, Your Honor. "Something" is what?

THE COURT: Well, what he has said here, what he has said on the witness stand.

MR. BROWNING: He said many things, if Your Honor please.

THE COURT: I know he has.

MR. BROWNING: I don't know what Mr. Bailey's question is directing his attention to.

THE COURT: What portion of his testimony are you referring to, I think is what Mr. Browning is saying.

MR. BAILEY: I understood Mr. Browning just to elicit from this gentleman, Your Honor, that his identification of the defendant speaking took place before the film shows him with his hands up. I want to know if that is what he really meant.

THE COURT: Do you understand that, Mr. Shea?

THE WITNESS: I can't figure that one out, no.

THE COURT: No. Mr. Shear the question he is asking you, your identification of the defendant, Miss Hearst here, as being one of the persons who shouted obscenities at you in the bank from some photographs that have been shown to you, and perhaps from the motion pictures, was that on the pictures, or independently in your memory?

THE WITNESS: NO, it was not in the picture.

THE COURT: It was not in the picture?


THE COURT: It's something you saw before the pictures, or after the pictures, or what?

THE WITNESS: That is something before the pictures were started.

THE COURT: All right. Now, does that answer your question, Mr. Bailey? If you want to ask any further, go ahead.

MR. BAILEY: Q. Mrs. Shea, what were you doing, what were you physically doing when you heard the threats issue?

I had my hands in the air.

Q. All right. You saw the motion picture a moment ago with your hands in the air.

A. Yes.

Q. Now, are you telling us that while you were standing with your hands in the air, you heard threats by a female?

A. Right.

Q. The one that was near the door where the F is placed on the diagram?

A. Right.

Q. Okay. Did you see the defendant in the second film that was just shown to you?

A. Yes.

Q. The one that begins with your hands in the air.

A. Yes, I saw the defendant.

Q. All right. What did you see her do in that film?

A. What did I see her doing?

Q. Yes.

A. Well, she was standing guard at the entrance -- at the area.

Q. What area?

A. Where she was standing.

Q. Where?

A. About the middle of the bank.

Q. Okay. Now, do you consider that to be ten feet from the door?

A. I didn't say it was ten feet from the door.

Q. You have admitted to me that you told the agent she was ten feet from the door.

A. We are talking about

-MR. BROWNING: Your Honor, that's argumentative.

Mr. Shea is explaining.

THE WITNESS: I am talking about the area.

MR. BAILEY: Q. You're talking about what?

A. You must be talking about the first aisle here.

Q. I am talking about the statement ten feet from the door in line with the entrance of the bank. You recall we talked about that?

A. Are you talking about that?

Q. You said that was the woman that made the threats, you recall that?

A. Yes.

Q. Okay. Do you tell the jury the middle of the bank where you say you saw the defendant is the same place as ten feet from the door in line with the entrance?

A. It's about right.

MR. BAILEY: That's about right. Okay. Thank you.

MR. BROWNING: We have no further questions, Your Honor.

THE COURT: All right. That will be all, Mr. Shea.

You're excused.

(Witness excused.)

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