Michael J. Connolly, Sworn.

Q. [By Mr. Williams.] What is your name?
A. Michael J. Connolly.
Q. Where do you live?
A. 15 East Main Street, Brockton.
Q. Are you a member of the Brockton police force?
A. I am.
Q. And have been for how long?
A. Going on five years.
Q. Do you remember the night of May 5th of last year?
A. I do.
Q. Where were you stationed that night?
A. Campello.
Q. Did you receive any telephone call that evening?
A. I did.
Q. About what time?
A. Three minutes of ten.
Q. Do you know where the call came from?
A. The central station.
Q. After receiving that call, what did you do?
A. Put on my hat and coat and went out to meet the Bridgewater car.
Q. What time was that Bridgewater car due, do you know?
A. It was due out of the avenue at 10.04. That brings her on to Main Street, Campello, at 10.04.
Q. 10.04. Did you, as a matter of fact, get aboard that Bridgewater car?
A. I did.
Q. Whereabouts?
A. At Keith's Theatre in Campello.
Q. Do you know the defendants Sacco and Vanzetti?
A. I do.
Q. And do you recognize them here in the court room?
A. I do.
Q. Will you tell the jury what you did after boarding the car, in reference to those two men, or what you observed in reference to them?
A. I boarded the car at Keith's Theatre.  I got on the front end.  When I got up where the motorman stands--one of them closed cars--I looked the length of the car to see if I could see two foreigners, which the telephone had said had tried to steal or take an automobile in Bridgewater.
MR. JEREMIAH McANARNEY.  I ask that be struck out.
THE COURT.  That may be stricken out.
MR. WILLIAMS.  That may be stricken out.
Q. What was said to you is not competent.  What you saw and what you did is all I am asking about.
A. That is what I am doing now.
Q. Well, you looked down the car, and what did you see and do?
A. I seen Sacco and Vanzetti sitting on the end seat, the left-hand end seat.
Q. On which side as you looked down the car from the front?
A. It was on the right-hand as I looked down from me.
Q. It was on the left-hand going from the back to the front?
A. By looking from the front to the back.  I came in that way, and they were sitting on the end seat.  I went down through the car and when I got opposite to the seat I stopped and I asked them where they came from.
They said "Bridgewater.”  I said, "What was you doing in Bridgewater?" They said, "We went down to see a friend of mine." I said, "Who is your friend?" He said, "
A man by the--they call him 'Poppy’.”  “Well, " I said, "I want you, you are under arrest." Vanzetti was sitting on the inside of the seat.
Q. When you say "on the inside," you mean toward the aisle or toward the window?
A. Toward the window.  The inside of the car; and he went, put his hand in his hip pocket and I says, "Keep your hands out on your lap, or you will be sorry."
THE WITNESS.  They wanted to know what they were arrested for.  I says, "Suspicious characters." We went,--oh, it was maybe about three minutes' ride where the automobile met the car coming from the central station.  Officer Vaughn got on just before, and when he got on I told him to stand up, and I told Officer Vaughn to fish Vanzetti; and I just gave Sacco a slight going over, just felt him over, did not go into his pockets, and we led them out the front way of the car.
Q. Now, just a minute, please.  Was anything found on either man at that time?
A. There was a revolver found on Vanzetti.
Q. What was done with that revolver?
A. It was handed over to me and I handed it over to the police.
Q. I haven't got to that.  Who handed it over to you at that time?
A. Officer Vaughn.
Q. From whom did Vaughn take that revolver?
A. From Vanzetti.
Q. And from what part of Vanzetti, if you saw?
A. From the left hip pocket, back pocket.
Q. Was that gun handed to you at that time?
A. Handed to me when he got outside the car.
Q. Did you examine it then or not?  I kept it in my hand and used it on the men to the station.
Q. Did you note at that time whether or not it was loaded?
A. I did.
Q. And was it or was it not?
A. It was.
Q. Now, if you will go ahead.  Let me ask you further, was anything else taken from the person of either defendant at that time?
A. Not at that time.
Q. Go ahead, then.
A. I put Sacco and Vanzetti in the back seat of our light machine, and Officer Snow got in the back seat with them.  I took the front seat with the driver, facing Sacco and Vanzetti.
Q. What do you mean?  You say you were in the front seat with the driver?
A. Yes.  I turned around and faced Sacco and Vanzetti.
Q. All right.
A. I told them when we started that the first false move I would put a bullet in them.  On the way up to the station Sacco reached his hand to put under his overcoat and I told him to keep his hands outside of his clothes and on his lap.
Q. Will you illustrate to the jury how he placed his hand?
A. He was sitting down with his hands that way [indicating], and he moved his hand up to put it in under his overcoat.
Q. At what point?
A.- Just about the stomach there, across his waistband, and I says to him, "Have you got a gun there?" He says, "No." He says, "I ain't got no gun." "Well," I says, "keep your hands outside of your clothes." We went along a little further and he done the same thing.  I gets up on my knees on the front seat and I reaches over and I puts my hand under his coat but I did not see any gun.  "Now," I says, "Mister, if you put your hand in there again you are going to get into trouble." He says, "I don't want no trouble." We reached the station, brought them up to the office, searched them.
Q. Whereabouts did you search them?  I mean, what room in the police station?
A. In the office,--desk.
Q. Were they booked first?
A. Where they book them.
Q. Were they booked first or after you searched them?
A. They were booked as they were being searched.
Q. Did you search Sacco at that time?
A. I did not.
Q. Did anybody search Sacco in your presence?
A. They did.
Q. Who?
A. Officer Spear.  I searched Vanzetti.  In his right-hand coat pocket--
Q. I am going to interrupt you again a minute, Mr. Connolly.  Will you tell us how those men were dressed that night?
A. Well, Sacco had on a dark suit, heavy overcoat, derby hat.  Vanzetti's coat was a coat, light coat, and he had on a soft gray shirt, necktie, and black slouch hat.
Q. When you say he had on a coat, do you mean an overcoat or sack coat?
A. No; a sack coat like mine.
Q. Did Sacco have an overcoat?
A. Sacco had an overcoat.
MR.  WILLIAMS.  Just wait a minute, please.
THE COURT.  We will take our afternoon recess now of five minutes.
[Short recess.]
Q. Had you completed the description of the defendant, Mr. Connolly, before we adjourned?
A. I think so.
Q. I want to show you this picture or ask you who is represented by that picture [indicating] ?
A. Vanzetti.
MR.  WILLIAMS.  Yes.  I will show it to you before I show it to the jury.
MR.  JEREMIAH McANARNEY.  Before you show it to the witness.
THE COURT.  Show it to the counsel first.
MR.  WILLIAMS.  I did not know it would be material until I had shown it to the witness.  It is usual to ask the witness first and then show it to the counsel.
THE COURT.  The jury have not seen it, gentlemen, anyway.  All right, no harm has been done.
[Mr.  Williams shows photograph to Mr. McAnarney.]
Q. [Mr.  Williams shows picture to witness.]
A. That is Vanzetti.
MR. JEREMIAH McANARNEY. Wait. There is no question before you yet.
MR. WILLIAMS. He has answered.
MR. JEREMIAH McANARNEY. I should object to it. I understand you are asking him whose picture it is?
MR.  WILLIAMS.  I already asked it.
MR.  JEREMIAH McANARNEY.  The Court said,--I thought you got the Court's intimation you are not to ask what it was until it was shown to the counsel.
MR. WILLIAMS.  I do not think the Court intimated that.  He asked me to show it to you.
THE COURT.  Show pictures to counsel on the other side first or any other documentary evidence.
MR. WILLIAMS.  I simply wanted to identify it, if your Honor please, before I show it to him.
THE COURT.  To be marked for identification?
MR.  WILLIAMS.  I have not offered it yet and I shall not until I call the photographer.
THE COURT.  Simply to be marked for identification.  That may be done.
MR. JEREMIAH McANARNEY.  I do not object to it being marked for identification.
MR.  WILLIAMS.  I simply asked him to identify it.  Do you object to that question?
MR.  WILLIAMS.  I will put it again.  Strike out that previous question and answer.  I am perfectly willing it should be.
Q. I now show you this picture and ask you who it represents,
and don't answer until my friend has had a chance to object to it.
THE COURT.  Supposing you wanted to recall the witness, it is simply marked for identification.  The jurors have not seen it.  I do not propose to allow them to see it until you have full opportunity to be heard.
MR. JEREMIAH McANARNEY.  Well, with that understanding, if your Honor please, I withdraw any objection to its being marked for identification.
THE COURT.  It seems as though that could be done rather than to recall this witness.
THE COURT.  The jurors will not see the picture until you have been heard on the question.
[The picture is marked "Exhibit 9 for Identification."]
Q. May I ask you, Mr. Witness, how the picture of the man that you say is Vanzetti, as he is represented there, compares with the way he was dressed the night of his arrest?
THE COURT.  I think before I allow that I will have the photographer.
MR. WILLIAMS.  It won't be shown, if your Honor please, to the jury.  I simply want to close up one witness.
THE COURT.  I know, but it may be quite an important matter, and under those circumstances I think you better have the photographer first.
MR. WILLIAMS.  Then it is understood, of course, I may recall the witness.
THE COURT.  You may recall him.
MR. WILLIAMS.  To ask him those questions later.
THE COURT.  He may remain in attendance.
MR.  JEREMIAH McANARNEY.  In view of the situation that is actually before the Court, may I ask that the answers given by this witness in connection with that photograph be struck from the record if he is to be recalled with the photographer here?
THE COURT.  I have no objection.
MR. JEREMIAH McANARNEY.  Very well.  Thank you.
MR. WILLIAMS.  May I ask, if your Honor please, why it isn't just as proper for me to show a witness a picture that way as it has been for Mr. Moore and Mr. McAnarney right along to show pictures and have them identify them?
MR. JEREMIAH McANARNEY.  It is a different situation entirely, no parallel.
THE COURT.  I think I can see a clear distinction, not perhaps in the principle, but perhaps in what counsel might say would be the importance of the evidence.
MR. WILLIAMS.  It may be more important, of course.
THE COURT.  That is my reason.  If I err, I would rather err one way.
MR. JEREMIAH McANARNEY.  Then I understand what this officer has testified in reference to that may be stricken from the record.
THE COURT.  May be struck from the record.
MR. WILLIAMS.  You mean, as to the identity of the picture?
THE COURT.  That is all, the identity of the picture.
MR. WILLIAMS.  I am confused now.  Is it stricken from the record that--
THE COURT.  It may be marked for identification to that extent.  The answers may stand, but as to whether or not they are the pictures, that I will strike that out.  The answer as to whose pictures they are may be stricken from the record for the present.
MR.  WILLIAMS.  No purpose of identifying it then, if it is stricken from the record.  I mean, of having it marked for identification.
THE COURT.  You can suit your own convenience about that.
MR. WILLIAMS.  It has been.
Q. You described how Vanzetti and Sacco were dressed that night.  Now, will you go ahead and tell us or describe to the jury what was done regarding the searching of them in the office or where they were booked, as you started to before I interrupted you.
A. I searched Vanzetti.  In his right-hand coat pocket I found four shells.  Three Peters.
THE COURT.  What is that?
THE WITNESS.  Three Peters, and one Winchester.
Q. What kind of shells?
A. Shotgun shells.
Q. Do you know the gauge?
A. 12 gauge.
Q. Yes.
A. I also found a sum of money on him.
Q. How much, do you know?  Do you remember?
A. Somewhere in the twenty odd dollars.  I do not know just exactly now.
Q. At that time did you have in your possession the weapon which had been taken from him and which you say had been delivered to you?
A. I did.
Q. I show you that revolver and ask you if you--
THE COURT.  There are no cartridges in it?
MR. MOORE.  I object.
MR. WILLIAMS.  I have not completed my question.
THE COURT.  I want to ask one first.  There are no cartridges in it?
MR. WILLIAMS.  No, sir.  I looked as I came down from the sheriff'S.
THE COURT.  All right.  That might be an important question at the
present time.
Q. Showing you that revolver, I ask you if you know what revolver that is?
MR. MOORE.  I object, your Honor.
THE COURT.  You may answer.
A. Yes.
MR. MOORE.  Reserve an exception, please.
MR. WILLIAMS.  Allow Mr. Moore a chance to object first before you answer.
Q. What revolver is it?
MR. MOORE.  I object.
MR. JEREMIAH McANARNEY.  Your Honor will save an exception to both.
THE COURT.  You both except.  I have not ruled on it yet.
MR. JEREMIAH McANARNEY.  All right, we will await your ruling.
THE COURT.  Will the answer to the question be to the effect that the revolver was found on one of the defendants?
MR. WILLIAMS.  I expect the witness will answer that is the revolver that was found on Vanzetti.
THE COURT.  Then he may answer.
MR. MOORE.  Reserve an exception.
THE COURT.  I will save your exception.
THE WITNESS.  That is the revolver that was found on Vanzetti.
Q. How do you know that is the revolver?
A. I marked it.
Q. How did you mark it? .
A. With a knife cut in the handle.
Q. Do you see that knife cut there?
A. I do.
Q. Will you point it out?
MR. JEREMIAH McANARNEY.  In order that there be no time taken, I would like to reserve an exception to any description or evidence in regard to that revolver.
THE COURT.  All right.  You object to its competency on any ground, I take it?
THE COURT.  You object also on the ground it is incompetent for any purpose, both of you?
THE COURT.  All right.
MR.  WILLIAMS.  I offer it in evidence.
MR. JEREMIAH McANARNEY.  Well, the objection goes to the offering in evidence, also, of course.
THE COURT.  Oh, sure.
MR. WILLIAMS.  I offer this in evidence and ask it be marked. [The revolver is admitted in evidence and marked "Exhibit 27."]
THE COURT.  Admitted and marked Exhibit what?
Q. Now, will you point out to the jury the mark you put on it?
A. It is a knife cut right in the round part of it.
[Mr.  Williams shows revolver to the jury.]
Q. Was it loaded at that time?
A. It was.
Q. How many bullets were in it?
A. Five.
Q. What did you do with the bullets?
A. I took them out and kept them until I handed them over to the state police.
Q. Do you remember to whom you handed them?
A. Yes.
Q. To whom?
A. Mr. Scott.
Q. What calibre revolver is that?
A. .38.
Q. Do you remember what kind of bullets were in that?
MR. MOORE.  I object.
THE COURT.  Well, do you know?
THE WITNESS.  I have it in notes.
THE COURT.  Well,--
Q. If you have any memorandum, you can refer to it.
THE COURT.  You may use it to refresh your recollection.
MR. MOORE.  Reserve an exception, if your Honor please.
THE WITNESS.  There is two Remingtons and three U. S.
Q. Do you know what "U. S." stands for?  A. United States, I think.
Q. United States.
THE COURT.  What is this question about?
MR. WILLIAMS.  The cartridges that were in the revolver.
THE COURT.  Oh, yes.  Did you intend to object to the gun shells?  I suppose that referred to large shells used in, as we speak of an ordinary gun or a revolver.
MR. WILLIAMS.  I am just asking now about the cartridges.  We have spoken about four 12-gauge shotgun shells.
THE COURT.  There was no objection to the admission of those.  Did you intend to object?
MR. MOORE. I intended to have this objection run to all revolvers and cartridges.
THE COURT. I don't know.  You kept objecting right along, but did not object to that, so I did not know whether you intended your objection to run to that or not.
MR. MOORE. We were objecting, your Honor,-I think there was an
objection to the four shotgun shells.
THE COURT. I have not heard one.  You see if there is anything on the record.
MR. MOORE. If not, let it be understood that there is an objection to any testimony-
THE COURT.  That is why I wanted it called to your attention.  I will hear you now, Mr. Williams, why the four shells should stay in.
MR. WILLIAMS.  I have not offered them as yet, but I will take it up.  He simply described what he found in the pockets.
MR. MOORE. Let me suggest, if I may be permitted, your Honor, that the objection to this revolver and to the shells in connection with this revolver, in part, at least, the same character of objection runs to the revolver and those shells as runs to the other four shells that your Honor has in mind, not in its entirety.  There is a further objection to the four 12-gauge shells that does not apply to these, but there is a very valid objection, I feel, to the introduction of this revolver and the .38 calibre shells.
THE COURT.  So far as the four shells are concerned, the shells used in an ordinary shotgun, I take it.
MR. WILLIAMS.  As I understand from his testimony.
THE COURT.  Is that what you meant?
THE WITNESS.  The first shells, these shells I described now—
THE COURT.  No, the four shells you talked about.
THE WITNESS.  Yes, those were ordinary shotgun.
THE COURT.  A shotgun.  I will exclude that.  You will give it no consideration whatsoever, with reference to the four shotgun shells.
MR. WILLIAMS.  If your Honor please, you bear in mind that the testimony shows that there was protruding from the rear window of this car a barrel there of a shotgun or rifle.
THE COURT.  Do you find any evidence of a shotgun?  As I get it, it was a rifle.
MR.  WILLIAMS. No, the Witness has characterized it as either.  They were not sure.
THE COURT.  If the witnesses have characterized it as either, I will allow it to stand.
MR. WILLIAMS.  I am very sure.
THE COURT.  If there is no evidence here it was a shotgun, then I will exclude it on the theory of the Commonwealth against Albert and several other cases that it is the possession of instrumentality that might cause the alleged killing.
MR. WILLIAMS.  Mr. Katzmann directs my attention—
MR. MOORE.  Reserve an exception.
THE COURT.  But if there is any evidence there was a shotgun, then if the shells were found that might be used in a shotgun, I presume that Might be applicable there too, but in the absence of it I will exclude the introduction of the shells.
MR. MOORE.  May I suggest one thing in fairness to your Honor, just one objection to this matter, that there is nothing to indicate any .38 calibre revolver in any connection with the testimony.
THE COURT.  Do you say a man could not kill with a .38 calibre revolver?
MR. MOORE.  No. That is not the question, but I am referring to any specific connection.
THE COURT.  When it is the possession of an instrument that might cause death or produce death in the manner claimed by the Commonwealth.  Whether this --was used or not, or whether the defendants --were there, is entirely another question.  I am dealing with simply the question of competency, nothing else.
MR. MOORE.  I suppose a man might have a cannon by the time he was arrested and that would certainly be unrelated to this crime.  They have laid the lines of this case on that--
THE COURT.  And that principle was why I excluded the evidence with reference to the shell, the shotgun shell.  I recall to mind now a case where by the time the man was arrested he had a certain kind of a knife and it was an instrumentality that might split open a lady's handbag and let the money drop out.  The court said that was competent.  Why?  Because it is an instrumentality that might cause the injury complained of, to wit, a slitting open of a woman's handbag.  Therefore, on the same principle, it was the possession of an instrumentality that might do what was done.  Therefore, I feel that my duty is to admit it.
MR. MOORE.  Reserve an exception, please.
MR. WILLIAMS.  If your Honor please, Mr. Katzmann directs my attention specifically to the testimony of Hans Berhsin, the chauffeur, who testified.
THE COURT.  Let the stenographer, without holding up the trial, look it over during sometime and call it to my attention.
MR.  WILLIAMS.  In the meantime, do I understand the testimony which he gave-about finding those shells is in or stricken out?
THE COURT.  It is out.
MR. WILLIAMS.  It is out.
THE COURT.  What do you say is the testimony, gentlemen?  You may be able to agree upon it?
MR. JEREMIAH McANARNEY.  I haven't any definite recollection as to just what the different witnesses have said.  They have described something sticking out there and it isn't clear enough in my mind.
THE COURT.  I presume to say I am wrong, but I think I have an idea it was a rifle.
MR. MOORE.  I will say we have the testimony, the Behrsin testimony, but I have not been able to go over it but will read it over tonight.
THE COURT.  It will be here tomorrow morning?
MR. MOORE.  Yes.
THE COURT.  So as to be fairly clear, if there was no evidence, that the evidence be excluded.
Q. You say there were five cartridges which you took from that revolver which were given to the state officers?
A. Yes.
Q. Did you make any identifying mark on them?
A. On the cartridges?
Q. Yes.
A. No.
Q. Could you identify them if they were shown to you at the present time?  I mean, from the appearance?
A. From their appearance, yes.
MR. MOORE.  I will ask leave to examine this witness, your Honor, with reference to these shells previous to any further examination by the Commonwealth.
THE COURT.  I feel that I should not allow it, to vary the usual custom.
MR. MOORE.  If your Honor please-
THE COURT.  This man is testifying to matters of fact.  I have sometimes done it when a question is raised as to the qualifications if an expert.
MR. MOORE.  He has also testified he made no marks upon shells that it is a matter of common knowledge are produced by the millions, and that unless marked are utterly impossible for any man to identify.
THE COURT.  That goes to the weight, not to the competency.  That is for the jury, not for me.  The witness says he can identify them, and if he says he can he is entitled to that privilege.  Whether the witness is testifying to that which is believable, is for the jury to say and not for me.
MR. MOORE.  I feel we ought to be entitled, your Honor, to examine him before their introduction.
THE COURT.  Supposing when the defense is reached, counsel for the Commonwealth should want to constantly start in with a cross-examination before you got through?
MR. MOORE.  My understanding of the rule is, your Honor, when a witness is testifying as to a specific fact we are entitled to interrogate to find out whether he has sufficient foundation and knowledge to be able to testify to a specific identification.
THE COURT.  I will rule it is competent up to the present time.
MR. MOORE.  Reserve an exception.
THE COURT.  Certainly.
MR. JEREMIAH McANARNEY.  For both, Mr. Stenographer.
Q. I will show you those five cartridges first, and ask you what they are.  I don't mean by way of any identification, but just describe them to the jury, if you will.
A. A bullet.
Q. What calibre?
A. .38.
Q. And can you tell from looking at them of what make they are?
A. Not by looking at them, without the name.
Q. Just look at them.  Can you see them?  Do you want to look at them through a glass [handing magnifying glass to the witness]?
A. Yes. [Witness examines bullets with glass.] There is two of these look like the ones.  The other two ain't.
MR. KATZMANN.  What is the answer?
MR. WILLIAMS.  He says two of these look like the ones; the other two are not.
Q. I simply asked you at the present time to tell what these five are?
THE COURT.  What do you mean by that, what they are?
MR. WILLIAMS.  The calibre and the make is what I asked him before.
THE COURT.  The last was, "what they are." I suppose he would say they are cartridges.
MR. WILLIAMS.  I have in mind my previous question.
THE WITNESS.  There is three U. S. The other two I can't make out.
Q. Three U. S., and the other two you can't make out.  Can you tell whether or not you have ever seen those cartridges before?
A. No.
Q. You can't. Have you now told us everything you found on the Person of Vanzetti?
A. Yes.
Q. Now, was any search made of Sacco at that time?
A. There was.
Q. Who made it?
A. Officer Spear.
Q. Were you there present?
A. I was.
Q. Will you describe the search of Sacco and what was found, if anything?
A. Officer Spear found some cartridges in his hip pocket.  He found an automatic.
Q. Do you remember which pocket he found them in?
A. No, I do not.
Q. Do you know how many he found?
A. Twenty-two.  He found an automatic.
Q. Automatic what?
A. Colts.  Automatic revolver, fully loaded, down between his pants and his shirt, underneath his vest and coat.  He also found, I think, a comb.
Q. A. What?
A. I think a comb.  I am not sure.
Q. A comb.  Yes.  Anything else you can think of?  Anything else you think of?
A. No.
Q. You say he found an automatic fully loaded?
A. Fully loaded.
Q. Do you know how many shots or how many cartridges were in it?
A. Ten.
Q. Do you know what was done with that automatic and the cartridges?
A. It was handed over to the state police.
Q. Now, was anything else found on either one of the defendants you have not told us about?
A. Not that I remember.
Q. You say they were booked at that time.  Subsequently to that time did you ever go to Sacco's house?
A. No. I went the next day.
Q. Well, that is what I meant by "subsequently." I meant some time thereafter.  What time the next day did you go?
A. I think we got over there around half past ten or eleven o'clock.  I can't just say the exact time.
Q. Who went with you, if anybody?
A. Lieutenant Gueron and State Officer Scott.
Q. Did you find anything there?
MR. MOORE.  I object, your Honor.
THE COURT.  Let me hear.  I don't know what the answer may be.
MR. WILLIAMS.  I haven't completed the question yet.
THE COURT.  What say?
MR. WILLIAMS.  I haven't completed my question.
Q. Did you find anything there in the nature of a weapon?
A. I did.
MR. MOORE.  I object, your Honor.
THE COURT.  Well, you may step to the desk.
[Conference at the bench between Court and counsel.]
MR. JEREMIAH McANARNEY.  The record will show the questions in reference to further findings were admitted subject to the defendants' rights.
MR. WILLIAMS.  I won't press that question, if your Honor please, we just stepped to the bench in regard to.
Q. Were you in uniform when you boarded the car that night?
A. I was.
Q. And was Officer Vaughn in uniform?
A. He was not.
Q. Who did you say the officer was that was in the machine when you went to the station after getting off the car?
A. Officer Spear, Snow and myself.
Q. Snow, Spear and yourself.
MR. WILLIAMS.  You may inquire.
Q. [By Mr. Moore.] At the time you got to the station, that is the only time you made any examination of the revolver or the contents of it. At the time on the car I do not suppose you examined the gun at that time?
A. When it was handed over to me I just looked to see if it was loaded, that is all.
Q. And when you got to the station, you made the examination?
A. I did.
Q.  Now, these shells--
MR. MOORE.  What is the number of this exhibit?  These really ought to be--
MR. WILLIAMS.  There is no exhibit.  Simply in the custody of the sheriff, from whom I took them.
THE COURT.  They have not been marked, have they?
MR. WILLIAMS.  No, if your Honor please.
MR. MOORE.  For the purposes of this record, ought they not to be marked in some manner?  You have had them examined by the witness.  He has made certain specific statements in reference to them and it would seem that their identity ought to be left without question.
THE COURT.  Do you object to their being offered?
MR. MOORE.  Yes, your Honor.  We have made an objection already made heretofore, but in spite of our objection they have been allowed to be identified.
THE COURT.  I will say this: they have not been marked yet as an exhibit.  They are not in evidence.  I suggest you are in danger if you inquire with reference to them.
MR. MOORE.  Well, suppose we leave this record in its present state.  It is at the present time subject to very considerable argument.
THE COURT.  There will be no argument raised on anything that is not admitted in evidence.
Q. Mr. Witness--
THE COURT.  As far as the witness has gone, he found some cartridges.  He gave them to somebody else.
Q. These particular cartridges that have been shown to you by Mr. Williams, you do not, as I understand, identify as the specific cartridges that you saw, other than by the calibre?
A. I couldn't say whether they were or not.
Q. In other words, you do not know whether they are or not?
A. No.
Q. And I believe you said that three of them of the five appear to be of a different make than your best recollection would indicate were the ones you saw?
MR. KATZMANN.  I object.
A. No.
THE COURT.  Do you want to inquire, Mr. Moore, about them now?
MR. MOORE.  I am asking the question, your Honor, whether that was his testimony.
MR. KATZMANN.  I do not object to inquiry about that, but I do want--
THE COURT.  I am afraid you are going to make them competent by your inquiry.
MR. MOORE.  I am asking the question whether or not he did so testify.
THE COURT.  You may ask that question.
Q. Did you so testify?
A. To what?
Q. That three of the shells that were shown to you, your best recollection was that they were of a different make than your recollection appears to indicate were the ones you found ate the time you looked at them on May 6th?
A. I made no such statement.
Q. What did you say with reference to them?
A. I said there were three U. S. shells, and the other two I could not read.
Q. And the other two,--on none of them, however, did you put any mark on?
A. No.
Q. Or none of them you specifically identify?
A. No.
Q. In any form.  How long did you have them in your possession, the ones you saw?  A. Twenty-four hours.
Q. Twenty-four hours.  And then you turned them over to Officer Scott, I believe.  Now, did you search both,-you searched Vanzetti, I believe?
A. I searched Vanzetti.
Q. Did you find anything else other than the things you have referred to?
A. Why, I think there was a pocket knife and handkerchief.
Q. I believe you said you found some money?
MR. WILLIAMS.  Speak up a little louder.
Q. I believe you said you found some money?
A. I found some money.
Q. Did you find a pocketbook in which that money was?
A. I don't just remember now whether it was or not.
Q. Would you say that there was not?
A. No, I would not say there was not.
Q. Did you find some memoranda and papers?
A. I did.
Q. Do you remember what they were?
A. Those were in a foreign language to me.  I could not read them.
Q. Did you find any letters?
A. Yes, there was letters.
Q. Did you find any memorandum book?
A. There was.
Q. Did you find any books or papers?
A. I ain't so sure of that
 now whether there was or not.  I wouldn't swear to that.
Q. Did you find any printed matter?
A. I don't know.  I don't remember whether I did or not.
MR. WILLIAMS.  Speak up louder.
THE COURT.  Speak up loudly.
Q. Then you have not told all of the things you found on direct examination.
A. I told what I remembered at the time that I was giving my testimony.
Q. The only things you remembered as taking from Vanzetti was the gun and the shells and the money?
A. Until you refreshed my memory, yes.
Q. And since I have refreshed you, you now remember these other matters?
A. Yes.
Q. Now, do you know what became of these various other matters that I have referred to?
A. I don't.
Q. Who did you turn them over to?
A. Captain Connolly.
Q. Captain Connolly.  Do you remember any letters?
A. I wouldn't say.
Q. Are you the first one that searched Vanzetti?
A. I am.
Q. Well, now, you took out of what pocket the gun?
A. I did not take the gun out of any pocket.
Q. Well, the bullets or the shells.
A. I took them out of the gun.
Q. Did you take any other other than those that you took out of the gun?
A. Yes, I took four shells, shotgun shells, out of his right-hand pocket, coat pocket.
Q. Anything else out of that right-hand pocket?
A. No, riot that I remember of.
Q. Anything else out of the left-hand pocket?
A. I think his handkerchief I took out of his left-hand pocket.
Q. Out of his coat pocket?
A. I couldn't say.
Q. Where did you take the money from?
A. I don't know.  I wouldn't say where I did take it from.
Q. Did you take it from the trousers pocket?
A. I don't know.
Q. Did you take anything from the trousers pocket?
A. I don't know.
Q. Did you take anything from the inside coat pocket?
A. I think I took some papers from there.  I don't know just what they were.
Q. Were they papers in a container, pocketbook?
A. I couldn't say about that.
Q. You don't have any idea what was in those papers?
A. No, not the slightest.
Q. Was there anything in there in the English language?
A. I didn't see anything.
Q. Would you say there was not?
A. No, I would not say there was not.
Q. You looked over everything that you took care of, didn't you?
A. I did not.  I did not look the papers over.  I just glanced at the outside ones and seen they were in a foreign language.
Q. Was it a roll of papers" Is that what you mean?
A. No, it came something out like that [indicating], out of a bundle.
Q. You mean a notebook, like the one you have there?
A. No, it was not a notebooks.  It was papers, letters of some kind, letterheads.
Q. Made quite a little bundle of papers, did it?
A. No, not such a very big one.
Q. Did you see a pocketbook, anything like that?
A. I don't remember.
Q. What?
A. I don't remember.
Q. You turned whatever you got over to the officers you mentioned?
A. Yes.
Q. Now, what did you take from Sacco other than the things you have mentioned?  A. I should have to look a moment.
MR. KATZMANN.  I object.
THE COURT.  He said he did not search Sacco.
Q. Were you there when he was searched?  I believe you stated you were?
A. I was.
Q. You saw taken a gun?
A. A gun.
Q. And the things you have mentioned?
A. Yes.
Q. Anything else?  Did you see any pocketbook taken from him?
A. Later on,--later on I did take some money from Sacco myself.
Q. That is, you did in part search him, didn't you?
A. Later on, after we had locked him up.
Q. You mean that day, the night of May 5th?
A. May the 5th, yes.
Q. In other words, you did in part search him afterwards, later in the evening?  Is that what you mean?
A. No, sir, Sacco gave me the money himself.
Q. I see.  Now, were you present when the officer did search him?
A. Well, part of the-I was present all the time, but my back was towards
him some of the time.
Q. Did you see anything taken from Sacco, other than the things you have mentioned?
A. No, I did not see nothing else taken.
Q. Notebooks or papers or pocketbook or memorandum or letters or anything else?
A. I didn't see nothing like that.  My attention was called to the bullets and the gun and I turned around and I seen them.
Q. And in so far as the gun was concerned, did you,-in so far as the gun or the bullets or both, I take it you made no identifying marks of any character?
A. Not on that gun, no.
Q. Nor on any bullets?
A. Nor on any bullets.
Q. And you have no recollection of any specific thing other than the things you have mentioned that were taken from Sacco?
A. That is all.
Q. You saw nothing else?
A. Not that I remember of.
Q. At any later date, May 6th, or any date thereafter, were you present when some of the identifying witnesses came and looked the defendants over?
A. What do you mean by being present?
Q. Were you present when some identifying witnesses came in, were brought in to look the defendants over?
A. I was.
Q. On a number of different days?
A. On a number of different days.
Q. And on one occasion when the witnesses were brought in, was there a case of mistaken identity as to the identity of the man under arrest and of the officer in charge?
A. There was not.
Q. Was there any one that identified you as one of the men that they thought they had seen at South Braintree?
A. There was not.
Q. Nothing like that statement?
A. There was not. That was a joke.

Q. [By Mr. Jeremiah McAnarney.] You had heard that joke before?
A. What do you mean, "heard it before"?
Q. You said it was a joke.  I said, you had heard it before, hadn't you?
A. What do you mean, "heard it before"?
Q. Don't you understand that?
A. No.
Q. Don't you understand the "before" or what?  What part of that question don't you understand?
A. I didn't hear it only once.
Q. When?
A. That was the time over to the courthouse it was given among reporters.
Q. You heard it amongst the reporters?
A. Yes.
Q. Didn't you hear it down in the room where the witness was being examined?
A. No, sir.
Q. Can't you give us any idea how many witnesses were brought in there from the time you got on to this case?
A. Not the slightest.
Q. Wait a minute.  Until now, how many witnesses were brought in there?
A. I don't know.
Q. Was there forty?
A. I don't know.
Q. Could you give us any idea how many witnesses were brought in to identify these men?
MR. KATZMANN.  One moment.
THE COURT.  How is that competent?
MR. KATZMANN.  One moment, I object.
MR. JEREMIAH McANARNEY.  I will follow that.  My purpose will be revealed by the next question.
Q. Have you in mind the names of people other than those who have come here as witnesses who were there and tried to identify these defendants?
MR. KATZMANN.  To that I object.
THE COURT.  How is that competent?
MR. JEREMIAH McANARNEY.  I would like to get those names.
THE COURT.  You will have to have a different reason than that, I am afraid, to make it competent.
MR.  JEREMIAH McANARNEY.  That is what I would like to know.
THE COURT.  All you got to do is to go one step further.  Suppose they all followed it up and say "This is the man." You know that would not be competent.
MR. JEREMIAH McANARNEY.  I would like to get those that did not know they were the men.  That is all.
[Conference at the bench between Court and counsel.]
THE COURT.  Gentlemen you may go until to-morrow morning at ten o'clock.  We will sit only until one, to-morrow being Saturday.
[Adjourned to Saturday, June 18, 1921, at ten a. m.]
Dedham, Massachusetts,
Saturday, June 18, 1921.
THE COURT.  You may poll the jury, please.
[The jury are polled, and both defendants answer, "Present."]
THE COURT.  You may proceed, please.
MR. WILLIAMS. [To an officer.] See if Mr. Austin C. Cole is there.
THE COURT. [To Mr. McAnarney.] Do you want to ask Mr. Cole any question, Mr. McAnarney, this morning.
MR. JEREMIAH McANARNEY.  I think I have, if your Honor please.
THE COURT.  What say?
MR. JEREMIAH McANARNEY.  Yes, have Mr. Cole come in.
MR. WILLIAMS.  I have asked for him.
THE COURT.  You have sent for him?
MR. WILLIAMS.  Yes, I just sent for him.  I have not seen him in here this morning.  I told him in the court room to be here at ten o'clock.
THE COURT.  If he is not here, get some other witness.
MR. WILLIAMS.  Well, he may be, if your Honor please.  Here he is.
Mr. Austin C. Cole, Re-Cross-Examination.
Q. [By Mr. Jeremiah McAnarney.] Mr. Cole, have you ever seen the man standing here [indicating]?
A. No, sir, not that I know of.
MR. JEREMIAH McANARNEY.  That is all.  That is the only question I desire to ask.
THE COURT.  Anything further, Mr. Williams?

Sacco & Vanzetti Trial Page