Detective John Black was a lead
investigator on the Phagan murder case.
Examination by Hugh Dorsey
Dorsey: “When you saw
Frank the morning of April 27 did he seem nervous?”
Black: “Yes.”
Dorsey: “Why?”
Black: “Because
he had some considerable trouble putting on a collar.
It seemed that he couldn’t tie his necktie.”
Dorsey: “What did he say
about going to the factory?”
Black: “He kept on insisting
on getting a cup of coffee, and I finally told him that I had been up
until one o’clock the night before and had then been aroused at four
o’clock in the morning and hadn’t had any coffee or breakfast, either. I told him we’d better go to the factory and
get that over with.”
....
Dorsey: “Did you see him go
the [factory punch] clock?”
Black: “Yes. He looked at
it, made an examination, and said it had been punched correctly up
until 2:30 A.M.”
Dorsey: “Did Frank state at
any time that the clock was inaccurate?”
Black: “He said on Tuesday
that the clock had been passed three times.”
Dorsey: "Did Frank produce a
time slip at that time?”
Black: “Yes, a clip which he
gave to Chief Lanford on Monday.”
Dorsey: “What became of the
slip he had on Sunday?”
Black: “He carried it into
his office on Sunday morning.”
Dorsey: “Who was present
Sunday morning when he stated the slip had been punched regularly?”
Black: “Detective
Starnes, Chief Lanford, Newt Lee, Boots
Rogers and myself.”
Dorsey: "When did you first
hear Frank state the slip was incorrect?”
Black: “I cannot swear. It
was Tuesday or Monday, one or the other.”
Dorsey: “Who was being held
at that time under suspicion of the crime?”
Black: “Newt
Lee.”
Dorsey: “Frank was not then
under arrest?”
Black: “No.”
Dorsey: “Did you hear Hass
make a statement in Frank’s presence?”
Black: “Yes. Haas demanded
of Chief Lanford that the officers
accompany Mr. Frank out to his residence and search his residence.”
Dorsey: “What were Haas
grounds for making such a demand?”
Black: “He stated that he
was Mr. Frank’s attorney and demanded to show that there was nothing
left undone.”
Dorsey: “What time was that?”
Black: “About 11:30.”
Cross-examination
by Luther Rosser
Rosser: “You didn’t
release Mr. Frank, until the word was given from the chief of
detectives, did you?”
Black: “I suppose not.”
Rosser: “Do you mean anything
by the word release?”
Black: “I spoke before I
thought when I uttered it.”
Rosser: “Wasn’t his
detainment equivalent to arrest?”
Black: “I can’t say so.”
Rosser: “Then you retract a
thing you said under oath?”
Black: “Yes, I retract the
word release....”
Rosser: “Wasn’t
it 10:00 before I got to the station?”
Black: “No. . . you got there between 8:30 and 8:00.”
Rosser: “Will you swear it?”
Black: “I won’t swear it. .. I don’t know....”
Rosser: “Who was present when
you talked to Frank on the time previous to Sunday?”
Black: “I don’t remember.”
Rosser: “As a matter of fact,
you can’t swear truthfully that you spoke to him at all, can you?”
Black: “Not positively.”
Rosser: “Hurry
and scurry is an enemy to memory, isn’t it?”
Black: “Yes.”
Rosser: “You went through the
factory with Frank?”
Black: “I don’t know—several
people.”
Rosser: “And none of you saw
the sketch said to be blood?”
Black: “No,
sir.”
Rosser: “How many of you went
over the building?”
Black: “I don’t know
exactly.”
Rosser: “Perhaps thirty
people?”
Black: “I don’t know.”
Rosser: “This
large horde made up of officers and curiosity seekers went over the
factory and nobody saw these alleged blood spots?”
Black: “No,
sir.”
Rosser: “How long was the
factory/open on Sunday morning—till about 12:00,
was it not?”
Black: “I don’t know.”
Rosser: “How many times did
you go to the factory that morning?”
Black: “Detective Starnes
went over the factory with you, did he not?”
Rosser: “Campbell and
Beaver, too?”
Black: “I don’t know about
Beavers, but Chief Lanford did.”
Rosser: “And no blood spots
were discovered that day?”
Black: “Not so far as I
know.”
Rosser: “You saw Frank at the
clock?”
Black: “Yes.”
Rosser: “He opened the clock
band took out a slip?”
Black: “Yes.”
Rosser: “When
did Frank turnover this slip that he took
out of the clock?”
Black: “I don’t know.”
Rosser: “Didn’t you tell Mr.
Dorsey a few minutes ago that he turned over the slip on Monday
morning?”
Black: “I don’t remember."
Rosser: “Look here, Black. Is
your memory so bad you can’t remember what you told Dorsey twenty or
thirty minutes ago? And yet you attempt here to state the words of
conversations that occurred more than three months ago?”
Black: [No answer.]....
Rosser: “You also went to
Lee’s house?”
Black: “Yes.”
Rosser: “What did you find?”
Black: “A
bloody shirt.”
Rosser: “Where is it?”
Black: “Mr.
Dorsey has it.”
Rosser: “Is that the shirt,
Mr. Black?”
Black: “Yes,
sir.”
Rosser: “What time did you
find it?”
Black: “Tuesday
morning, about 9:00.”
Rosser: "Don’t
you know, Black, that as a matter of fact, that shirt was found before
Frank ever said anything to you about the misses in that time tape?”
Black: [No answer.]
Rosser: “Don’t you
know it?”
Black: [No answer.]
Rosser: [To Judge:]
“Give him time to answer, your honor.”
Black: “I don’t remember. I
don’t like to admit it, but I am so crossed up and worried that I don’t
know where I am at.”
Rosser: “Come down.”
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