Testimony of Dr. John F. Condon

JOHN F. CONDON, sworn as a witness on behalf of the State.

Direct Examination by Mr. Wilentz:

 Q. How old are you, Doctor?
 A. Seventy-four years of age on the 1st of last June.
 Q. And during those 74 years, where have you lived?
 A. In the most beautiful borough in the world.
 Q. What place is it?
  Mr. Fisher: I ask that be stricken out.
 A. The Bronx.
  The Court: I decline to strike it out.
 Q. You mean you have lived your entire life in the City of New York and particularly The Bronx?
 A. Yes.
 Q. All right, will you tell us the degrees you have, Doctor?
 A. The first one is A.B., known as Bachelor of Arts. The second is a Bachelor of Arts degree of the College of the City of New York, 1882.
 Q. And the next, sir?
 A. Fordham University, the Master of Arts in course with an original thesis.
 Q. And the next degree that you received?
 A. New York University, Doctor of Pedagogy, with an original thesis, scientific.
 Q. What did you follow as means of livelihood?
 A. [At first,] I was compelled to help my father, who had eight children, seven of whom became teachers in N.Y. City. I saw early that the burden was too great upon my father and I applied to the Western Union Telegraph Co. that I might learn telegraphy, which I learned, took a position with the Western Union Co. while I was studying to become a teacher, the ambition of my life. In November, 1883 after being with the Western Union Co. for one year, I went to the City Superintendent's examination for teacher under the late honored John Jasper.
 Q. And how many years were you engaged as a teacher?
 A. 46 years. Starting yesterday the anniversary, January 8th, 1884; ending up in 1932. This would make it 50 years yesterday.
 Q. When was it that you retired as a teacher?
 A. I retired well, my application I put in on the day I was 70 years of age, which is the law. I didn't want to take a penny from the City that I wasn't entitled to.
 Q. Now, since that time, Doctor, you haven't been engaged in any occupation, have you?
 A. Yes. I had some capital, very little, [that] I put in real estate. I thought it might be wise to learn how to protect it, so I went down to the examination at the Federal Building and passed the examination as a realtor.
 Q. On April 2nd, 1932, you saw Colonel Lindbergh?
 A. I did.
 Q. Did you go someplace with Col. Lindbergh in an automobile?
 A. Yes.
 Q. Whose automobile was it?
 A. Alfred J. Reich, my friend and helper in real estate.
 Q. Where did you go?
 A. I went in the automobile and he took the wheel, followed directions given in a note to me at my front door after the bell rang
 Q. Where did you go, Doctor?
 A. I went across I do not know how much you know about the Bronx, but I was born there
 Q. Tell us
 A. I went across Pelham Parkway to what is called Westchester Square. After going in an easterly direction, we are compelled to turn over in a northerly direction until we came by advice from the note to a florist, known as Bergen's Floral Station. I went to Bergen's store and I was directed to look under a table and I would find a stone there, and finding the stone, that there would be a note under it.
 Q. As a result of finding the stone and the note, where did you go?
 A. I went across the way as directed by the note to cross the street, to talk to nobody and to go down to Whittemore Avenue.
 Q. Now Doctor, did you go down Whittemore Ave. and meet a man?
 A. I did.
 Q. Did you have with you some time or other a box of money?
 A. The Colonel had the box of money with an extra package besides.
 Q. Did you give some money in a box that night?
 A. I did.
 Q. And who did you give that money to?
 A. John.
 Q. Who is John?
 A. John is Bruno Richard Hauptmann.
 Q. All right sir. Now let's get back just about where we started, where we should start. In March, 1932, as the result of a letter or advertisement you inserted, did you receive a note?
Mr. Fisher: That is objected to as being leading. The question should be what he received.
Mr. Wilentz: That is all right.
 Q. As the result of an advertisement or whatever it was you published, did you receive any response?
 A. I did.
 Q. What was it that you received?
 A. I received a letter with a peculiar signature upon it consisting of
 Q. I show you an envelope dated March 9th, 1932, postmarked NY, N.Y., 12 noon, and ask you whether or not you recognize it [S-24]?
 A. I received this letter within that envelope with the directions on it, and the signature of three holes.
 Q. I show you an envelope addressed to Colonel Lindbergh, and ask you if that was enclosed with these same notes and in the same envelope just referred to?
 A. Yes, sir.
Mr. Wilentz: May I read these, please, if your Honor please?
The Court: Yes.
Mr. Wilentz (Reading to the jury): This envelope is addressed to Dr. John F. Condon, 2974 Decatur Ave., NY. [S-42]. "Dear Sir: If you are willing to act as go-between in Lindbergh case, follow strictly instructions. Handle enclosed letter personally to Mr. Lindbergh. It will explain everything. Don't tell anyone about it. As soon we find out the press or police is notified, everyding are cansell c-a-n-s-e-l-l, and it will be a further delay.
 After you gets the money from Mr. Lindbergh put them words in the New York American: money is ready. After that we will give you further instructions. Don't be afrait. We are not out for your thousand dollar (dollar sign after the thousand). Keep it only act strictly. Be at home everynight between 6-12. By this time you will hear from us."
 Together with that Exhibit S-43 - you notice this exhibit has no symbol on it inside the envelope S-45 "Mr. Colonel Lindbergh Hopewell": " Dear Sir: Mr. Condon may act as go-between. You may give him the seventy thousand $. Make one packet. The size will be about (here you will the drawing of the size) 6 by 7 by 14. We have notifiet you already in what kind of bills. We warn you not use any trap in any way. If you or someone else will notify the police tere will be a further delay. After we have the money in hand we will tell you where to find your boy. You may have a air plane redy. It is about 150 miles away, but before telling you the adr. a delay of 8 hours will be between." Then the circles with the three holes and the red center.

 Q. Now, when you received that envelope, what did you do, sir?
 A. I came home late that night. I usually lecture in four places. One of them was the Silesian Order; it is a Catholic order in New Rochelle; the other the College of New Rochelle; third, at Fordham University and, last, at the Woolworth Building in the lower part of the City. I found my letters, as I usually asked them to be placed, by a Tiffany clock that we happen by chance to have.
 Q. And did you open it?
 A. I opened it. As soon as I read it, I went over to 188th Street and Concourse in order to meet Alfred J. Reich. He wasn't there. I took the letter out of my pocket and telephoned its contents to a gentleman at the other end of the wire at a place called Hopewell.
 Q. Of course, you had a telephone in your home, did you not?
 A. Yes, sir. [But] I never used my house telephone with anything that will annoy my family.
 Q. As a result of the telephone conversation, did you go anywhere that night?
 A. I went to Hopewell, N.J., the residence of Colonel Lindbergh. I met Colonel Lindbergh that night after 12 o'clock.
 Q. Who else was there with you, sir?
 A. Colonel Breckinridge and one or two officials of some kind, I didn't pay attention to anybody but Colonel Lindbergh and Breckinridge. They were the two celebrities I went to see.
 Q. As a result of that visit, did you cause an advertisement to be put in the New York American?
 A. I did.
 Q. The advertisement referred to in the New York American "I accept. Money is ready. Jafsie."
 Q. Did you get a response to your ad?
 A. I did. I received another letter.
 Q. Was that delivered or mailed to you?
 A. I received this letter by messenger at my front door.
Mr. Wilentz: May I read the note, sir?
The Court: Yes.
Mr. Wilentz (Reading): "Mr. Condon: We trust you but we will note" (n-o-t-e) " in your hous. It is too danger. Even you can note know if police of secret service is watching you. Follow this instruction. Take a car and drive to the last subway station from Jerome Avenue Line. A hundred feet from the last station on the left side is a empty frank-furter stand with a big open porch around. You will find a notice in senter of the porch underneath the stone. This notice will tell you where to find me. Act accordingly. After three-quarters of a houer be on the place, bring the money with you."
 And the sign or symbol, as you see it there, with the holes.
 Mr. Pope: Let me see that, Mr. Attorney-General.

By Mr. Wilentz:

 Q. Did you follow the instructions in that letter?
 A. I did. I got into the automobile with Mr. Reich, went up through Mosholu Parkway, along the Jerome Avenue elevated and went to the last elevated pillar as instructed, followed out instructions implicitly until I came to the frankfurter stand which was closed on account of it being cold and wintry, there was no business anywhere.
 Q. When you got to the frankfurter stand, what did you do?
 A. I got out of the car, walked over into that little opening that you see in front of the stand and saw a stone. Under the stone I saw a paper sticking out.
 Q. Are these the papers?
 A. This is the envelope in which the note was enclosed. Yes, that is the note.
Mr. Wilentz: "Cross the street and follow the fence from the cemetery. Direction to 233rd Street. I will meet you."

[Doctor Condon re-entered the car and proceeded according to the directions of the note, toward the intersection of 233rd Street and Jerome Ave., parallel with the fence at Woodlawn Cemetery.]

 Q. Did you reach 233rd Street with your car before you stopped or did you stop before you reached it?
 A. Stopped before we reached it.
 Q. What happened, if anything?
 A. Nothing for a while except that one man from 233rd Street walked down in the direction of the automobile between me and the automobile. I saw this man come down there but I didn't pay any attention of any account to him.
 Q. Then what happened?
 A. I said
 Q. You said something?
 A. I did.
 Q. As a result of what you said, what happened next?
 A. I saw a handkerchief inside, from someone inside the gate, being waved.
 Q. What happened then, when you saw that handkerchief waved white handkerchief, was it?
 A. A man put his arms through the bars. I walked over there and said "I see you."
 Q. Did you walk up?
 A. I walked up to the gate on the outside. The man was standing about 3 feet away on the inside.
 Q. How long did you stay there before that situation was changed?
 A. About three minutes.
 Q. Who was the man you spoke to?
 A. John as given to me by himself.
 Q. And who is "John"?
 A. John is Bruno Richard Hauptmann.
 Q. Now what did Mr. Hauptmann say to you there three feet away from you with the gates between you?
 A. He said, "Did you got it, the money?"
 Q. And what did you say, sir?
 A. I said, "No, I couldn't bring the money until I saw the package."
 Q. What else happened?
 A. About a minute or so I heard a rustle in the leaves. He heard it and said, "There is a cop." He caught ahold of the bars and climbed up to the top of that fence and jumped in front of me.
 Q. Then what happened?
 A. "Did you sended the cops?" "No, I gave my word that I wouldn't do that, and I kept my word." He then said, "It is too dangerous" and started to run.
 Q. What did you do?
 A. I followed him. I followed him into a little clump of trees near a shack on the opposite side of the way from the cemetery, and I went over and got a hold of his arm and said, "Hey, you mustn't do anything like that; you are my guest." I lead him back to the seat by the small shack.
 Q. Did he accept your invitation?
 A. He accepted the invitation. I talked to him then for more than one hour.
 Q. Tell us as best you can remember what you said to him and what he said to you.
 A. He said to me, "It is too dangerous. Might be twenty years or burn. Would I burn if the baby is dead?" "Not if you did not have some part in it." He answered, "I am only a go-between."
 Q. Now, then, what else was said?
 A. In order to find out whether or not he was the proper party, I said, "How am I to know that I am talking to the right man? Tell me."
 Q. What did he say?
 A. "The baby was held in the crib by safety pins."
 Q. I see. And what else was talked abut then?
 A. I asked him how he happened to get into such a scrape as that, a man like he was. "What would your mother say if she knew that you were engaged like this?" And he said, "My mother wouldn't like it, she would cry."
 Q. Then what happened?
 A. Then I said, "Leave them and come with me." "No." "Why?" "The leader would smack me up." "Excuse me, are you a German?" "No, Scandinavian."
 Q. Then what was said?
 A. He had his coat up this way (indicating drawing up the lapels of his coat to his face.). I said, "You have nothing to fear from me. Take down that coat. I will go as hostage to the man that has the baby. Let me go. I will stay there until you get the money. I have three toys belonging to the baby and there are three words I know the baby knows."
 Q. What did he say?
 A. "Nobody else shall ever get the baby but you, and you can put that baby's arms around Mrs. Lindbergh's neck. There is a point here [indicating north], and on that point I will stand and give a signal to them. There is a boat. They will see the signal and Colonel Lindbergh can get his plane and go right up there."
 Q. All right, and you asked whether you could walk there?
 A. Yes, sir. And he said I couldn't get there anyway but by plane.
 Q. Did you get to see the child?
 A. No. He said they wouldn't even propose it, that they would drill him.
 Q. Then what was said about whether they were the right parties?
 A. He said, "We are the ride parties. I will send you the slipping suit of the baby. I vaited too long already." Then we shook hands and parted.
 Q. All right. Now, you returned home with Mr. Reich?
 A. In his automobile.
 Q. How many days later did you get another communication?
 A. The following Wednesday from that Saturday.
 Q. What came with that letter?
 A. The baby's sleeping suit. It came by mail, I opened it in my parlor.
Mr. Wilentz: Now, may I read the letter? "Dear Sir: Ouer man failed to collect the mony. There are no more conference after the meeting from March 12th. Those arrangements too hazardous for us. We will note allow ouer man to confer that way like before.
 Circumstance will note allow us to make a transfer lie you wish. It is impossibly for us. Why should we move the baby and face danger to take another person to the place is entirely out of question. It seems you are afraid if we are the rights party and if the boy is alright. Well you have ouer singnature it is always the same as the first one, specially the three holes. (The other side.)
 Now we will send you the sleeping suit from the baby, besides it means three dollars extre expenses because we have to pay another one. Please tell Mrs. Lindbergh note to worry, the baby is well. We only have to give him more food as the diet says. You are willing to pay the 70,000$ note 50,000$ without seeing the baby first or note. Let us know about that in the New York American. We can't do it otherwise because we don't like to give up ouer safty plase or to move the baby. If you are willing to accept this deal then put in the paper 'I accept. Money is redy.' (Underlined). Our program is after eight hours we have the money received we will notify you where to find the baby. If there is any trap you will be responsible what will follow."

By Mr. Wilentz:
 Q. Did you after talking to Col. Lindbergh and Col. Breckinridge, did you cause an ad to be inserted as directed by the note?
 A. I immediately upon getting that suit brought Col. Lindbergh into my parlor and, spreading out the suit on the piano, asked him to direct me and see if I was making any mistake. Then, in response to that, I carried out the orders given in the letter, having handed him the sleeping suit.
 Q. Now as I understand it, [the ad] says: "I accept. Money is ready. You know they won't let me deliver without getting the package. Let's make some sort of c.o.d. transaction. Come. You know you can trust Jafsie." Following that, did you receive another note [, this one]?
 A. I did. Yes, sir, that is a letter which I received by mail at my home.
Mr. Wilentz: The note, postmarked NY, N.Y., March 19, 7:30 p.m., reads as follows:
"Dear Sir:
 You and Mr. Lindbergh know ouer program. If you don't accept, den we will wait until you agree with our deal. We know you have to come to us anyway, but why should Mr. and Mrs. Lindbergh suffer longer as necessary. We will note communicate with you or Mr. Lindbergh until you will so in the paper until you will write in the paper, write so in the paper. We will tell you again. This kidnapping case whas prepared for a year already. So the police won't have any look to find us or the child. You only push everding furder out. Did you send that little package to Mr. Lindbergh? It contains the sleeping suit from the baby. The baby is well." (On the opposite side.) "Mr. Lindbergh only wasting his time with his search."

[Another note was entered into evidence; this one followed the previous one.]
 Mr. Wilentz (Reading to the jury):
 "Dear Sir:
It is note necessary to furnish any code. You and Mr. Lindbergh know ouer program. Very well. We will keep the child on ouer save place until we have the money in hand, but if the deal is note closed until the 8th of April, we will ask for 30,000 more, and note 70,000, a hundred thousand. How can Mr. Lindbergh follow so many false clues? He knows we are the right party over singnature. Ouer singnature is still the same as on the ransom note, but if Mr. Lindbergh likes to fool around for another month, we can't help it. Once he has to come to us anyway, but it he keeps on waiting, we will double ouer amount. There is absolute no fear about the child. It is well."
 Q. Having received that note, did you then receive another?
 A. I did. Yes, sir, I received that letter and envelop around the first of April.
 Mr. Wilentz: The letter reads as follows:
 "Dear Sir:
Have the money ready by Saturday evening. We will inform you where and how to deliver it. Have the money in one bundle. We want you to put it is on a certain place. There is no fear that somebody else will take it. We watch everything closely. Please let us know if you are agreed and ready for action by Saturday evening. If yes, put in the paper, 'Yes, everything is O.K.' it is very simble delivery but we find out very soon if there is any trap. After eight houers you get the adr. from the boy on the place. You find two ladies. They are innocence. If it is too late to put it in the New York American for Saturday morning, put it in the New York Journal."
 Q. Did you cause this ad to be inserted, "I accept. Money is ready. Jafsie" on the Saturday in question, April 2nd?
 A. I did.
 Q. Now then on Saturday, in accordance with the instructions, you say the money was ready at your home?
 A. Yes, sir.
 Q. Did you receive this note, delivered to your home, on that date?
 A. Yes, sir.
 Q. Do you know who delivered it?
 A. Yes, sir. A messenger.
 Q. Now, this is the last note at your home on April 2nd, 1932?
 A. Yes, sir.
 Mr. Wilentz (Reading note to jury):
 "Dear Sir:
Take a car and follow Tremont avenue to the east until you reach the number 3225 East Tremont Ave. It is a nursery, Bergen Greenhouses, Florists. There is a table standing outside, right on the door, you find a letter. Undernead you will find a letter covered with a stone. Read and follow instructions."
Then the three holes and the circles and the red dot.
"Don't speak to anyone on the way. If there is a radio alarm for police car, we warn you we have the same equipment. Have the money in one bundle. We give you three-quarters of an hour to reach the place."
 Q. Did you then follow those instructions and leave?
 A. Yes, sir. Within about a half an hour. It took us a little time to prepare, but within a half an hour we started.
 Q. Then it was, was it, that you and the Colonel left as you testified before?
 A. Yes. The Colonel took the box of money and we went across to Westchester Square and we came to Bergen's Flower Store. Shall I go on?
 Q. Yes, go right on.
 A. There was a table right out front. The place was closed up, and under the table was a stone, and under the stone a note which I picked up. I got out of the car
 Q. Just a minute. I suggest that I read the note:
"Cross the street and walk to the next corner and follow Whittemore Avenue to the south. Take the money with you. Come alone and walk. I will meet you."
Circles, red dot, three holes.

[Court recesses for lunch.]

JOHN CONDON resumed the stand.

Direct Examination continued:

 Q. What did you do after you picked up the note under the table?
 A. I read it and then went over to the automobile where Colonel Lindbergh was seated.
 Q. Did you talk to the Colonel there?
 A. Yes, sir. Showed him the note. Shall I go on?
 Q. Go right on, Doctor.
 A. I walked along the southerly side of Tremont Ave., the cemetery side. I went along in an easterly direction past the entrance and gate. I went maybe 100 yards east of the gate. I saw no one and came back again to the meeting of Whittemore and Tremont, stood there and said, "There does not seem to be anybody here. I will go over to see the Colonel." I went to turn away and some one said, is a very loud, clear tone, "Hey, Doctor, over here."
 Q. Then what did you do?
 A. I walked toward the voice. It came from the mound of St. Raymond's Cemetery, about ten feet above the level where I was standing. I followed the voice and it repeated again in a lower tone, but I could hear it. I heard plainly, "Over here." I followed down the street. From the light going down that street, it was exceedingly dark, and I walked exceedingly cautiously. It was down grade and getting darker each time I walked.
 Q. Yes. To the left of you was the cemetery and to the right, what was there?
 A. A frame building, I should judge about 3 stories. There were no other buildings, no other signs of civilization.
 Q. Well, you finally got to a point near the hedge at the entrance to the cemetery, did you not?
 A. I did.
 Q. When you got there, what did you do and what happened?
 A. When I got there, I heard the same voice. Then I said, "All right." He says, "Have you got the money?"
 Q. What did you say.
 A. "No, I didn't bring any money. It is up in the car." John asked me who was up there in the car, and I said, "Colonel Lindbergh."
 Q. Now with reference to the amount of money, did you discuss that there?
 A. I did. I said to him, "Colonel Lindbergh is not so rich. These are times of depression. Why don't you be decent to him."  And he said, "Well, I suppose if we can't get seventy we take fifty." I said, "That will go, but tell me where is the note [telling us how to find the baby]?" [He said] in ten minutes I come back again with the note and give you the note." I said, "I will go up and get the money."

[Dr. Condon returned to the car, related the conversation to Col. Lindbergh, who then removed $20,000 from the top of the box, leaving $50,000 in it. He closed the lid and gave it to Dr. Condon, who returned to the hedge.]

A. He was crouching down under the hedge, and I said, "Come on, stand up like a man. I have the money here." I placed the box of money on my forearm. Then I said, "Give me the note." He put his hand down his coat pocket and said, "I got the note. Don't open it yet." I said, "I have never betrayed a confidence. I won't open it, I will take it up to Colonel Lindbergh." I gave him the box and he gave me the note. I was about to turn away and he said, "Well, all of them said your work was perfect." I said, "I know of no other way to act. The truth to a kidnapper is the same as it is to a judge." I hope the Judge will pardon me.
 Q. Yes, go ahead Doctor. Go ahead. (Laughter.) Now did he shake hands with you that night?
 A. He reached out his hand over the hedge: "Your work was perfect. Good night." I said, Good night, John."
 Q. And the man you handed the money to was John, you say?
 A. Is John.
 Q. And John is who?
 A. John is Bruno Rudolph or Bruno Richard Hauptmann.
 Q. Is this the note you received that night?
 A. It is.
 Q. Was the envelope finally opened?
 A. It was. About a mile from where we got it.
 Mr. Wilentz: May I read the note found at the cemetery:
 "The boy is on the boad Nellie. It is a small boad 28 feet long. Two persons are on the boad. The are innocent. You will find the boad between Horseneck Beach and Gay Head near Elizabeth Island."

 Q. When you left at midnight, where did you go?
 A. The late Senator Morrow's house. We had a consultation.
 Q. From Senator Morrow's home, where did you go?
 A. We went in an automobile to Bridgeport, Connecticut. We arrived around five o'clock in the morning.
 Q. What did you do then?
 A. When it was light, we went in an airplane to within the vicinity of Gay Head.
 Q. Did you find the boat Nellie or the baby?
 A. No.
 Q. The party abandoned the search, did it not?
 A. Yes, because it was getting toward dark.
 Q. Now, remembering that Saturday night was the time of the meeting at St. Raymond's Cemetery, then having gone on these airplane trips and returned, what did you do next, Doctor?
 A. I wrote a note through the press. [Mr. Wilentz offers a copy of the advertisement.] Yes, sir, I am the author of that advertisement.
 Mr. Wilentz: The ad reads:
"What is wrong? Have you crossed me? Please, better directions. Jafsie."
 Q. Did you get any response to that?
 A. I received no response to it.
 Q. Following your meeting with John at St. Raymond's Cemetery, did you see him again and, if so, when?
 A. Yes, sir; I saw him about the latter part of October 1934, in Centre Street.
 Q. New York, you mean?
 A. Police Headquarters I didn't want to say prison.
 Q. Dr. Condon, after you had dealt with John and the child hadn't been returned eventually the body was found, I take it you were questioned by the police?
 A. Yes, sir.
 Q. Did you give a description of John?
 A. Yes, sir.
 Q. Tell me, please, give me the description of John as saw him at Woodlawn Cemetery and St. Raymond's Cemetery?
 A. He was about 5 feet 9 and a half, what we term in boxing circles, a middle weight, that is, or a little heavier than a middle weight middle weight is 158 to 165, very well built and exceedingly active and athletic, were my description.
 Q. What was his complexion?
 A. I would say that his complexion would be what I would call light, that his hair was a muddy blond.
 Q. When you talked about his being muscular, how did you arrive at that observation?
 A. I have trained about 10,000 athletes in my life, and they couldn't deceive me upon those inner muscles. I felt his muscles on that bench when I said "Your coat is rather of light fabric. Let me give you one." I was studying him.

  Mr. Wilentz: All right. Thank you. Take the witness.

Cross-Examination by Mr. Edward Reilly:

 Q. Doctor, how long have you been in this business of training athletes?
 A. Fifty years.
 Q. What is a lightweight?
 A. A lightweight, the numbers given me were 135 pounds from the time of Jack Farrell.
 Q. Quite a ways back, is it not, Doctor?
 A. Yes, sir.
 Q. And what is a welterweight?
 A. Welterweight originally was 142 pounds, and went to 148 pounds, where the different rules belonging to that line were changed by the Committees on boxing.
 Q. You mean the Marquis of Queensbury rules?
 A. They had nothing to do with the Marquis of Queensbury rules. The Marquis of Queensbury rules represented four rounds under the late John L. Sullivan, who was a marvelous boxer.
 Q. What am I, a heavyweight?
 A. You a heavy weight? May I look?(Witness stepped down from stand and examined Mr. Reilly.) This doesn't hurt you, does it?
 Q. No, not a particle.
 A. Undoubtedly a heavy weight. (Laughter)
 Q. And I take it you yourself are a heavy weight?
 A. Yes.
 Q. So we start even. (Laughter)
  The Court: Let us proceed quietly.
 Q. Doctor, did you ever teach theosophy?
 A. No, sir.
 Q. You did teach at Fordham?
 A. I did.
 Q. And what course?
 A. Many. The branch of education, referring mostly to teachers.
 Q. Did you ever have any experience or knowledge of signs, particular signs?
 A. Nothing. I never read a book on signs, except the Encyclopedia and dictionary as a reference.
 Q. Then you are not the John Condon who signed in the public library of New York, are you?
 A. I never took
 Q. two weeks before the kidnapping for the German Koch's Book of Signs, are you?
Mr. Wilentz: Just one minute, please. There is nothing in the record that any such thing ever happened.
Mr. Reilly: Now there is
Mr. Wilentz: All right, I will withdraw the objection.
 A. I have never taken a book from the New York Library, neither have I ever signed my name for any book, and I never took a book on Theosophy or signs of any kind.
 Q. Have you heard that a John Condon two weeks before the kidnapping signed for Koch's book in the public library?
[Mr. Wilentz objects. The Court sustains his objection.]
 Mr. Reilly: I now ask the Attorney General of this State to produce the slip from the public library in New York signed by a Dr. John Condon, which I understand is in his possession.
[Mr. Wilentz agrees, but expresses his objection to it.]
 Q. Now, Dr. Condon, will you take a pencil or ink and a pad and write, please. Will you write "John", please.
 A. Yes, sir. (writes.)
 Q. All right. Now will you put under it, please, "Francis." Then write "Condon" underneath that, please.
 A. With pleasure.
 Q. And then will you give me, please, a copy of your signature.
 A. Yes, sir. That is my bank signature.
 Q. Perfectly safe with me, Doctor.
 A. I hope so. (Laughter.)
  Mr. Reilly: I offer this sheet for identification.

[Mr. Reilly inquires as to the number and duration of trips that Dr. Condon has taken over the previous 2 years. He also questions Dr. Condon's veracity in identifying "John" as Hauptmann. He next plays upon the newspapers allusions of connections between 1) Dr. Condon and ex-convicts and 2) Betty Gow and Arthur "Red" Johnson, the Danish deckhand on the Lamont's yacht and an early suspect. Mr. Reilly then questions the placement of Condon's original letter offering to be a go-between in the small, local Bronx paper rather than one with a wider circulation. The success of the ad appears too coincidental to Mr. Reilly.]

 Q. So you decided that because somebody was accusing somebody that you didn't know, never heard of before, a deckhand on the Lamont yacht, by the name of Red Johnson that you ought to come and spring to his assistance by inserting an ad in a local paper in the Bronx: right?
 A. I didn't say that was the chief reason; no, sir. I had some reasons for putting the letter not an ad then
 Q. But you put your letter, or your appeal, in The Bronx Home News?
 A. I did.
 Q. Yes. And didn't you do that because you knew at that time that the kidnapping band were waiting for your letter in that paper?
 A. No, sir.
 Q. Yet within 24 hours after it was published in that little paper, a letter came to you, did it not?

  [The jury takes a short recess.]

 Q. When do you say Johnson's name was first mentioned in connection with this case?
 A. As nearly as I can recollect, the first search that was made, when the paper announced that he went through the Holland Tunnel with a milk bottle in his car.
 Q. Well, when did you develop this keen interest in Johnson?
 A. Around the 7th of March. It was a Sunday night.
 Q. And it was because you wanted to assist Johnson, is that it?
 A. No, sir. That was only one of the reasons.
 Q. Was there any other person except Johnson that you desired to aid by your letter, which person had been accused justly or unjustly before March 7th.
 A. No, sir.
 Q. In your appeal to the kidnappers, how did you indicate they should communicate with you?
 A. My name and address, where I lived and do now.
 Q. Your appeal went to the newspaper on the 7th, published on the 8th?
 A. Yes, sir.
 Q. And according to this stamp on the response, it was mailed at midnight in New York station March 9th, is that correct?
 A. That is right.
 Q. The 7th the appeal, the 8th the publication, the 9th the writing and the 10th the reception. If the kidnapping band were not anticipating something from the Bronx News, didn't you think it strange that the appeal should not be published in the metropolitan dailies?
 A. No, sir.
 Q. And, of course, you did not know the kidnappers?
 A. I did not.
 Q. They might just as well have been in Massachusetts, Texas, Mexico, or any place?
 A. Yes.
 Q. And yet if they were, you expected them to see the Bronx News, did you?
 A. Yes, sir.
  Mr. Reilly: Is this the Colonel's letter?
Mr. Wilentz: The one with the symbol on is the Colonel's and the one without is to him.
 Q. This letter which you received in reply to your appeal bears no symbol?
 A. That is correct.
 Q. Up to the time you received this letter, Doctor, the symbols had not been printed in the newspaper?
 A. No, sir.
 Q. Nobody in the outside world knew what was on the kidnap note except Col. Lindbergh and his household?
 A. Right.
 Q. When you got this letter, was the Colonel's letter open or closed?
 A. Closed and sealed.
 Q. In answer to your ad you received this letter directed to you without any symbols.
 A. Right.
 Q. Col. Lindbergh's letter was sealed and you didn't open it?
 A. Right.
 Q. You went to a telephone that night and called the Colonel?
 A. Yes, sir.
 Q. Col. Lindbergh was being pestered to death with cranks. At first, didn't someone else answer the phone?
 A. Someone else answered the phone but I insisted that he come to the phone.

[Mr. Reilly pursues the issue of whether Dr. Condon had access to the symbols prior to Col. Lindbergh's opening the sealed envelope. A number of interchanges occur between Mr. Reilly and an apparently confused Dr. Condon.]

 Q. I asked you before possibly you didn't understand me if in addition to this letter which you showed the Colonel in Hopewell, and that was contained in this envelope was it not?
 A. Yes, sir.
 Q. And sealed when you handed it to the Colonel?
 A. Yes, sir.
 Q. Did you receive
 A. Excuse me. That I couldn't state for this reason: I did not telephone the Colonel until I saw the symbol. Now I could not see the symbol on that letter, so I couldn't telephone the symbol to him.
 Q. Yes.
 A. I described the symbol over the telephone to the Colonel and asked him if it was important and he said, "Yes, it is important." [I said] "I will come down there" and I started within a reasonable time.
 Q. Well, then, that is just what I asked you ten minutes ago. So that up to the time you phoned the Colonel that you had a letter with a symbol on it, as far as you know, you were the only person, after the Colonel answered you, in the general public that knew anything about the symbol?
[A. Except for Mr. Rosenhain, the proprietor of the restaurant and Mr. Gaglio, who drove Dr. Condon to Col. Lindbergh's home.]
 Did you do anything in connection with the instructions contained in the first two letters, the one to you and the one to Col. Lindbergh, after you left Hopewell?
 A. Col. Breckinridge asked if he might carry on the work that he thought I had started by way of the letter. I said, "Here is the house: it is yours."
 Q. Col. Breckinridge lived at your house about a month, didn't he?
 A. Not then. He hadn't started to live there then.
 Q. Did you do anything else? Did you go anywhere?
 A. Oh, yes. Every place that I got any kind of a lead, and among them was up to City Island.
 Q. You had a boathouse there once, didn't you?
 A. A shack, if you would allow me to tell you; I had a shack.
 Q. That is more or less of an Irish term, isn't it, a "shack?"
 A. No, that is a United States of America, fine term a common term.
 Q. Was it big enough to live in or was it a boathouse?
 A. No, sir. It was just one room and a partial attic pointed as I heard one Irishman say, "The roof took in half the room."

[Dr. Condon continues to become easily confused over dates and his actions in and around the arrival of the letters, no longer certain if he went to City Island or not.]

Court recesses for the day.

January 10, 1935. Seventh Day.

JOHN F. CONDON resumed the stand.

Cross-examination continued by Mr. Reilly:

 Q.  Now we will get back to this letter. In a letter from the kidnappers they drew a diagram of the box?
 A. Yes, sir.
 Q. They asked that the money be enclosed in a box of about those dimensions, correct?
 A. Right.
 Q. You then had the box made, didn't you?
 A. Yes, sir.
 Q. Who made the box?
 A. A wood carver and box maker at Webster Ave., near 198th Street. It is in the United States Theatre Building.
 Q. When did he make the box?
 A. I don't remember.
 Q. You remember everything else about this case, don't you? But the box that was to carry the ransom money was of no importance to you?
 A. Not in the sense that you use it, no.
 Q. Has the box ever been found?
 A. I do not know.
 Q. How much did you pay for the making of the box?
 A. About three dollars and a quarter.
 Q. What was the box made of?
 A. I took whitewood, and they call that poplar, they call it honeysuckle; that is the same wood. I took whitewood and mixed it with other styles of wood until I got the color and the kind of a box I wanted.
 Q. What kind was that?
 A. A box made of layers of substance, a little thicker than veneer, so that at any time I could recognize the box. It was five-ply.
 Q. That made the sides how thick?
 A. Five-eighths of an inch; three-quarters of an inch.
 Q. How long?
 A. It was six inches by seven inches by fourteen inches.
 Q. Now, when you walked up the street to meet the kidnapper, you had the box you handed it to him?
 A. I did.
 Q. He got down on his knees?
 A. Yes, sir.
 Q. He pulled the money out?
 A. Some.
 Q. He put it in his pocket?
 A. Some.
 Q. How was the money bound up, one package, wasn't it, such as bankers have?
 A. Yes.
 Q. Did you see the kidnapper stuffing the money in his pocket?
 A. I did.
 Q. Did you ask him to give you the box back?
 A. The money was in the box when he left me.
 Q. Did he leave first?
 A. I think we both left together.

 Q. Did you ever tell anyone that you were the Jafsie mentioned in the ad?
 A. Yes, sir; everybody I knew.
 Q. You have been talking about this case?
 A. All the time, every time I could.
 Q. To anybody that would talk to you?
 A. Anybody that would talk to me, yes, sir.
 Q. Can you remember every statement you made to everybody you talked to?
 A. I don't believe it is possible.
 Q. You never made any record of your different conversations with any person in this case, did you?
 A. No.
 Q. And now, of course, you are depending upon your memory in 1935 for what happened in 1932?
 A. Yes, sir.
[Mr. Reilly asks a series of questions concerning meetings with District Attorneys, newspapermen and boat excursions, none of which Dr. Condon admits to remembering.
Sample:  Q. Did you talk to a man about this case in Childs' Restaurant the last time you were there in December, 1934?
 A. I couldn't tell you, but if you specify I will remember.
 Q. Did you tell Marcus Griffuth of the New York Inquirer in Childs' Restaurant during the month of December, 1934, that the child's body was brought back to the spot where it was found buried and you knew that to be a fact?
 A. I don't remember having said so.
 Q. You won't say you didn't say it?
 A. I won't say I didn't I don't know.
 Q. Is your memory poor?
 A. It is not. It is a question of my belief that I am thinking of.]

 Q. Did you ask a detective in the Bronx for some pictures of
the defendant so you could study them?
 A. Not to my recollection.
 Q. Will you say now that you did not, after the arrest of this defendant, ask Detective Callahan of the Bronx for some pictures of this defendant so you could study them?
 A. I did not.

[Mr. Reilly continues drawing Dr. Condon's memory into question and ends the cross examination with an inference of his "moral turpitude", allegedly having been transferred from a principalship of a school due to his conduct with a woman teacher. Dr. Condon denies it, Mr. Wilentz objects to the character assassination.]

  Mr. Reilly: We have finished with Dr. Condon.

Mr. Wilentz: I have just a few questions, if your Honor please, as soon as the witness is the witness here?
Mr. Hauck: Yes, he is here. We have sent for him.

Re-direct examination by Mr. Wilentz:

 Q. Dr. Condon, there has been some talk about your athletics and your familiarity with it. When you were at college were you active in athletics? Play football?
 A. Yes, sir.
 Q. Captain of your college team?
 A. Yes, sir.
 Q. And are you the holder of a Congressional medal for

Mr. Pope: I object to the question as immaterial.
Mr. Wilentz: I withdraw the question if counsel objects.

 [Mr. Wilentz clarifies an error in Dr. Condon's earlier testimony concerning the sealed envelope containing the symbols, which he received along with a note addressed to himself. Dr. Condon states that he opened the sealed letter at the restaurant after receiving permission from the party on the line at Hopewell. It was his description of the symbols that gained him entree to the Lindbergh's home that evening.]

[Mr. Reilly conducts a short re-cross examination, still focusing on his inability to recall many people and faces he has seen related to the case, along with his conversations with a large number of people.]

End of testimony.

Hauptmann Trial Page