Testimony of Charles A. Lindbergh
January 3-4, 1935

CHARLES A. LINDBERGH, sworn as a witness on behalf of the State.

Direct examination by Mr. Wilentz.

 Q. Colonel, you are the husband of the lady who was just on the stand?
 A. I am.
 Q. On March 1st, 1932, you and your family resided in Hunterdon County in the Sourland Mountains?
 A. That is right.
 Q. And you would go from there to Englewood occasionally and back again?
 A. Yes.
 Q. Particularly with reference to the week end of March 1st, 1932, you and your family did stay and occupy the Hunterdon County home, did you not?
 A. During the week end on Saturday and Sunday, yes.
 Q. On that day particularly, March 1st, 1932, I take it you were at business?
 A. Yes.
 Q. What is your occupation – what was it on March 1st, 1932?
 A. My occupation is aviation. On March 1st, 1932, I had spent the day in New York.
 Q. On March 1st, 1932, what time did you return to your Sourland home?
 A. I arrived about 9:25 in the evening.
 Q. And when you got home, will you tell us briefly from there until 10:00 o'clock what happened?
 A. I came by car, arriving about 8:25. I put the car in the garage at the west end of our house. From there, I went in through the kitchen and joined my wife at supper in the dining room on the west end of the main section of the house on the lower floor. We left supper about approximately 9:00 o'clock, went from there into the room adjoining the dining room, which we call the living room of the house on the lower floor. We sat on a sofa there for about five or ten minutes, approximately. From there, we went upstairs to our room and continued our conversation there.
 I then went into the bathroom, took a bath, came downstairs, went into the library, which is on the east end of the main part of the lower floor of the house, sat down at a desk and began reading.
 Q. All right, sir. Now just one moment, please there, Colonel. would you mind standing up, please, Colonel?
 A. (Witness steps before the map on the wall.)
 Q. The library that you refer to, therefore, is the library shown on Exhibit S-4, the easterly corner of it – that is, the southeasterly corner of the house?
 A. That is correct.
 Q. And the window alongside of which this writing table was placed is the window immediately under the sash window, I think they call it, of the nursery?
 A. Under the south sash window on the east side.
 Q. And that is where you were writing?
 A. Yes. The desk was placed right here (indicating).
 Q. Right about in the southeast corner, is that it?
 A. Yes, facing south.
 Q. All right. Now you were writing there at about what time would you say, and for how long?
 A. I should say approximately half an hour.
 Q. And about what time do you believe it was when you first went to that desk or went to that room to sit down to read and started your half hour reading?
 A. (No answer.)
 Q. I understood you to say that you finished dinner about nine o'clock.
 A. It would be in the vicinity of 9:30.
 Q. And while you were there did you have a clear view of the window that was right alongside of the desk?
 A. I was sitting beside the window. The window was open, or rather the window was closed, but the shutters were open.
 Q. So that it was absolutely visible to you?
 A. Yes, of course.
 Q. You could see through them so far as the darkness would permit?
 A. As far as the darkness permitted, yes.
 Q. Did you see any objects coming down past that window or in the vicinity of that window that night?
 A. I did not.
 Q. Prior to that time, remembering that that was about 9:30, you had been in the living room, had you not?
 A. Prior to that time I had been upstairs, and prior to that time in the living room.
 Q. Well, some time during that night did you hear some sort of noise or crash?
 A. Yes, I did.
 Q. About what time was it and where were you?
 A. Sitting on the sofa in the living room. At that time I heard a sound which seemed to me, at the time, the impression that entered my mind at the time vaguely was that it was like the top of – well, say, an orange box, the top slats of an orange box falling off a chair, which I assumed to be in the kitchen.
 Q. That is, sort of like the falling of a crate, a wooden crate?
 A. The slats of a crate.
 Q. At any rate, what you felt was happening was that some piece of wood, like slats of a crate, had fallen in the kitchen?
 A. That is correct. I did not pay very much attention to it at the time, but enough to remark to my wife the words, "What is that?"
 Q. And except for that, it went unnoticed?
 A. Yes.
 Q. About what time was that?
 A. That would be about 9:10 or 9:15.
 Q. Was it the sort of a noise that would come with the falling of a ladder?
 A. Yes, it was, if the ladder was outside.
 Q. Finally, at about ten o'clock in the evening Miss Gow spoke to you about the child, did she not?
 A. About ten o'clock.
 Q. Where were you then?
 A. I was reading in the library.
 Q. What happened, tell us, then?
 A. Miss Gow called to me in a rather excited voice and asked me if I had the baby.
 Q. What happened from then on?
 A. I immediately went upstairs into the nursery and from the appearance of the room I realized, and from the appearance of the crib I realized that something had gone wrong.
 Q. What was the appearance of the room that indicated to you that something had gone wrong, Colonel?
 A. As I entered the room, of course I at first and immediately looked at the crib. The bed clothing in the crib was in such condition that I felt it was impossible for the baby to have gotten out himself. I knew that neither my wife nor Miss Gow had taken him because Miss Gow had asked me if I had him and my wife was upstairs. The clothing was standing – the bed clothing was standing stiffly enough so that the opening where the baby had been was still there, the clothing had not collapsed.
 Q. Was the clothing in that crib still affixed to the mattress by pins, if you know?
 A. As I recall, it was.
 Q. I see. Did you see a note in the room, a paper or what?
 A. Yes, I am not at the moment certain whether I saw that note at that time or the next time I entered the room.
 Q. I see.
 A. But, either the first or second time; I came back very shortly.
 Q. How much time intervened, would you say, between your first visit into the room and the second that you refer to?
 A. I should say not over five minutes.
 Q. At any rate, on one of those occasions you found the note there?
 A. I had found a note unopened on the window sill on the southeast corner of the room on the window facing east.
 Q. Did you find it or was your attention directed to it by anyone?
 A. No, I found it.
 Q. Was the window open or closed?
 A. The window was closed.
 Q. And, this is the window shown in Exhibit S-12 alongside of which or near which you found the note?
 A. It is, on which I found the note.
 Q. Will you describe, as you look at this exhibit, just the spot where you found the note?
 A. The note was in an envelope on top of the grating which forms the window sill and through which heat comes from the radiator.
 Q. Will you please step down and just show the jury on that exhibit, the point at which that note was found by you?
 A. (Witness steps down before the jury.) The note was on this sill.
 Q. Indicating the sill underneath the east window, along the east window?
 A. On this sill (indicating).
 Q. I show you an envelope with the initials F. A. K. on the back of it, and a note with the same initials on the back of it and ask you whether or not that note and that envelope were found by you in that room that night, and whether or not those are the papers you just referred to as being on that window sill.
 A. These are the papers. The note was in the envelope. The initials  F. A. K. were not on at that time.
 Q. Who placed those initials on?
 A. They were placed on, I believe, by Trooper Kelly; but this is the note and this is the envelope which contained the note on the window sill at that time.
Mr. Wilentz: I place them in evidence.
Mr. Reilly: No objection.
Mr. Fisher: May we look at it first?
Mr. Wilentz: What is the request?
Mr. Fisher: May we look at it while you go on with your examination, for a moment?
Mr. Wilentz: Well, how about the envelope? Do you want to look at that too?
Mr. Fisher: Yes.
Mr. Wilentz: I should prefer, if the Court has no objection, to await the determination of counsel.
Mr. Fisher: Oh, we will be just a second.
Mr. Reilly: No objection.
Mr. Wilentz: Will you please mark first the envelope S-17.
Mr. Fisher: Will it be marked as one exhibit?
Mr. Wilentz: No, two. And the note –
The Reporter: Do you want to take it out?
The Court: If there is no objection, they will be admitted as S-17 and S-18. Is that the idea?
Mr. Wilentz: Yes, if your Honor please; the envelope is S-17 and the note is S-18.

(Envelope received in evidence and marked State Exhibit S-17. Note referred to received in evidence and marked State Exhibit S-18.)

Mr. Wilentz: I desire to ask permission of the Court to read the note.
The Court: You may read it.
Mr. Wilentz: "Dear Sir: Have –"
Mr. Pope: Have you got a copy of the note for us, or anything that we can follow?
Mr. Wilentz: If there is a copy I would like to have counsel give it to Mr. Pope. I did present a complete copy to former counsel for the defense and it was the only copy I had, but there must be some copy here and we will get it for you.

"Have 50,000 (and the dollar mark after it) dollars ready, 25,000$ in 20$ bills, 15,000$ in 10$ bills, and 10,000$ in 5$ bills. After 2-4 days we will inform you where to deliver the mony. We warn you making anyding public or for notify the police. The child is in gut care. Instruction" [or indication, I don't know which it is] "for the letters are singnature" [not signature singnature, s-i-n-g, singnature – I want you please to remember that]. Then you find these two circles and as indicated there, somewhere within them, as you see them better than I can describe it, this red fire ball or blotch and at these distances three holes Singnature three holes. That is his signature – singnature.

 Q. Now, Colonel, of course you found your baby was missing and you found that – did somebody want to see it – the bed clothes in the room and the baby's room had been disturbed. Did you notify the police?
 A. I – shall I describe it, what happened to it?
 Q. Yes, please.
 A. I immediately went into the closet in our own room adjoining and got a Springfield rifle which I kept there and stood at the top of the stairs, called to Mr. Wheatley and asked him to call the sheriff at Hopewell. That was the nearest officer of the law that I knew of. As soon as I found that his telephone call had gone through, so that the wires were not cut, which I had expected, as soon as he received an answer from the sheriff so that I knew that he was coming, I went outside on the road north of the house.
 Q. With the rifle?
 A. With the rifle. It was extremely dark that night, I could see a very little distance, and I walked on that road probably for a hundred yards. I then returned to the house. Before I went on the road – I jumped –
 Q. All right.
 A. I went ahead a little bit. After Mr. Wheatley had made contact with the sheriff at Hopewell, or with the Chief of Police, I then went downstairs – before I went out onto that road – and called the New Jersey State police and Colonel Beckenridge in New York. Then I took the rifle and went out onto the road.
 Q. And who is Colonel Beckenridge?
 A. Col. Beckenridge is my friend and attorney in New York.
 Q. Your friend and attorney?
 A. Yes.
 Q. You say you went out with this rifle and then returned?
 A. Yes.
 Q. Then what did you do, if anything? Had police come?
 A. Very shortly after that, Chief Wolfe arrived. Meanwhile, we had touched nothing in the house, in the nursery room. I left instructions not to touch anything there. I myself had not touched the note. And after Chief Wolfe arrived, we began looking around the house outside.
 Q. You are talking of Chief Wolfe of the Hopewell Police?
 A. Of the Hopewell Police, yes. We went around the side under the nursery window, - that is on the east side of the house; and as I recall now, it was Chief Wolfe who, with his flashlight, found, located the ladder lying quite a few feet in approximately a southeast direction from the nursery window.
 Q. That was either Chief Wolfe or Williamson?
 A. Yes. I remember clearly seeing the ladder but I am not certain at the moment who was holding the light.  We walked through there on the planks which had been laid over the mud on the east side of the house, and we found both footprints and the imprints of the end of the ladder approximately under the southeast window of the nursery; but offset slightly to the north. So that the ladder was actually resting slightly to the north of the window itself.
 Q. And you found imprints of that ladder there?
 A. Yes.
 Q. And you say footprints; did you find Mrs. Lindbergh's footprints there?
 A. The footprints that I saw at the time were of a man.
 Q. I see. Did you see any of her footprints?
 A. I don't recall seeing any of hers.
 Q. You don't recall. All right. Now after that, sir, I take it that State police came and you showed them the note? Oh, pardon me, before that, when Officer Williamson, or Chief – Chief Wolfe, is it?
 A. Chief Wolfe.
 Q. Chief Wolfe?
 A. And Officer Williamson.
 Q. And Officer Williamson; when they came did you take them up to the nursery?
 A. I believe so.
 Q. Well, at any rate, who were the officers, if you remember, Colonel, to whom you first exhibited the note?
 A. I left instructions, after finding the note, that no one was to touch it, and the note was not touched until Trooper Wolfe of the New Jersey State Police arrived. He moved the note from the window sill to the mantle over the fireplace with a penknife.
 Q. Yes, sir.
 A. And the note itself was not opened until Trooper Kelly arrived with suitable equipment for examining it.
 Q. For examining it, you mean for fingerprints?
 A. Yes.
 Q. Now I want to show you a picture of what, I believe, purports to be the ground right underneath the window in the immediate vicinity of that window, with some impressions or holes in the ground, and ask you whether you recognize those holes as being the place where the ladder stood, or the indentation or the impressions made by the foot of the ladder that you have just referred to?
 A. Yes, they are.
 Q. Do they correctly depict the impression that you saw there that night made by the foot of that ladder?
 A. By the ladder, yes.
 Q. And that walk – there seems to be a board there; is that the boardwalk that Mrs. Lindbergh referred to a while ago?
 A. That either is or is similar to the walk that was lying – that was there that night.

   Mr. Wilentz: I offer it in evidence.
Mr. Reilly: We would like to admit this, but, if the Court please, we would like to know when it was taken.
Mr. Wilentz: Yes, sir.
Mr. Reilly: How it was taken and by whom it was taken.
Mr. Wilentz: My information is that – well let me offer it for identification.
Mr. Reilly: For identification, yes, follow it up tomorrow.

(The photograph was marked State Exhibit S-6 for Identification.)

 Q. Well, at any rate, Colonel, there was the note and the ladder, impressions in the ground that you speak about, the child gone, police officers coming – I suppose the press soon came too?
 A. Yes.
 Q. And about how many, would you say, were represented there in Hopewell that night before day break?
 A. I don't know, I imagine several hundred.
 Q. Several hundred. So that, I take it, between the press and the police – and there were police of many organizations, weren't there?
 A. There were.
 Q. I take it that there was considerable confusion and walking in and about the premises, right?
 A. Well, there was, the greatest confusion was before all of the press arrived and while the press was there, there was a great deal of walking around the house by the press which was concerned.
 Q. I suppose that included the taking of pictures and flashlights and things of that kind?
 A. Yes, and walking around the house on the loose ground there.
 Q. And during all the time you were doing what, Colonel?
 A. During the first period I was around the house trying to familiarize the officials with what had happened.
 Q. And go ahead, Colonel.
 A. Later in the evening and during the early hours of the morning I was out on different parts, different places in the vicinity of the house with the group of police officers, visiting other houses.
 Q. I want to go back for a minute, please – It is quite disconnected, possibly, but I want to get back to the time in the house, and particularly when you were in the living room. As I remember it, the living room opens into the hallway, isn't that so?
 A. Yes, yes, in addition to other doors.
 Q. But, it does open into the hallway.
 A. With a double door.
 Q. With a double door. And, there are two staircases, one leading to the right and one leading to the left, isn't that so?
 A. One staircase from the living room.
 Q. One staircase from the living room?
 A. From the living room. The other stair is in the back of the house.
 Q. In the back of the house? Well, now, the staircase leading from the living room – Could you see that? You couldn't see it unless the door was open, could you?
 A. No.
 Q. Was the door open that night when you came from dinner and walked into that living room, for 15 minutes or so?
 A. Yes, sir; the doors were open that evening.
 Q. Did anybody – I will withdraw that. They were open that evening as I understand it?
 A. Yes.
 Q. Were the doors open to the library from the living room?
 A. Yes.
 Q. We will get back, then, again to the scene in the home, the confusion. Mrs. Lindbergh, I take it, remained in the house?
 A. I believe so, yes.
 Q. Did you not also have Mr. Wheatley drive the car along the premises, playing his lights on the highway or on the road for a part of the way?
 A. Mr. Wheatley went outside. At the moment I don't recall just what his actions were. He went outside and was searching for a time.
 Q. All right, sir. Having received this first note, did you receive another?
 A. By mail, yes,
 Q. To you directly?
 A. The next one was addressed to me at our home in East Amwell Township.
 Q. Note No. 2?
 A. Yes.

   Mr. Wilentz: May I have that note, please?
Mr. Wilentz: Has your Honor any objection to indicating to counsel what time your Honor expects to adjourn so I can regulate my examination accordingly?
The Court: If it would suit the convenience of counsel, I would be willing to adjourn quite speedily. I think the room is quite warm. Does counsel prefer it?
Mr. Wilentz: I would like to get one breath of fresh air within the next half hour, but if there isn't any objection, I should like to finish with this note and then continue in the morning, if it meets with your Honor's convenience.
The Court: That I think will be satisfactory.

 Q. Will you take a look at that envelope, please, Colonel Lindbergh, and this note and see if that isn't the note which you received second?
 A. This is the envelope which contained the second note and this is the second note contained in the envelope. There are some initials on there that have been put on since.

Mr. Wilentz: All right, I will describe them. I will offer them in evidence.
 I am going to ask the Court, please, if you don't mind – I don't want top be offensive either to the Court or counsel or the press, but I would appreciate it, even though this is the last minute of this testimony, if the people in the room would remain here until we get through, so there won't be this apparent confusion that we are meeting with back there.
The Court: Yes, that is an entirely proper request. It won't be long now before we take an adjournment and there is no reason in the wide world why everybody who is in the courtroom now should not remain here until the Court has adjourned. The people will observe that order and keep quiet so we can all hear.

(The envelope referred to above was received in evidence and marked State Exhibit S-19. The note referred to was received in evidence and marked State Exhibit S-20.)
Mr. Wilentz: Exhibit S-19 then is an envelope addressed to Mr. Colonel Lindbergh, Hopewell, New Jersey, and note No. 2 – we will refer to this as Exhibit S-20 –
The Court: That has been offered in evidence.
Mr. Wilentz: And marked.
The Court: No objection. It will be admitted.

Mr. Wilentz: Exhibit S-20 reads:

" Dear Sir: We have warned you note," [n-o-t-e] "to make anyding" [a-n-y-d-i-n-g] "public or notify the police. Now you have to take the consequences This means we will hold the baby until everything is quiet. We can note" [n-o-t-e] "make any appointment now. We know very well what it means to us. It is really necessary to make a world affair out of this or to get your baby back as soon as possible. To settle this affair in a quiet way will better for both. Don't be afraid about the baby. The lady taking care of it day and night. He also will feed him according to the diet. Singture on all letters with an arrow pointing to the circles and the red dot and the holes. We are interested to send him back in gut" [g-u-t] "Ouer" [o-u-e-r] " ransome was made up for 50,000$. But now we have to take another person to it and probable have to keep the baby for a longer time as we expected."
 I want you to watch that point.
 "So the amount will be 70,000$, 20,000$ in 50$ bills, 25,000$ in 20$ bills, 15,000$ in 10$ bills and 10,000$ in 5$ bills. Don't mark any bills or take them from one serial number. We will inform you later were" [w-e-r-e] "to deliver hte mony. But we will note do so until the police is out of this case and the pappers are quiet. The kidnapping was prepared for weeks so we are prepared for everything."

Mr. Wilentz: May we then at this time adjourn until tomorrow morning?
The Court: The Court will take a recess, but I will ask everybody to remain quiet, standing or sitting where they are until the jury has retired. The jury may now retire. Has the jury retired?
Court Crier Hann: The jury has gone out.
The Court: The prisoner is remanded in the custody of the Sheriff. He may retire.

(Whereupon at 4:13 p.m. the Court adjourned until tomorrow morning, January 4th, 1935, at 10:00 a.m.)

Flemington, N.J., January 4, 1935
Third Day
 Hon. Thomas W. Trenchard
 Mr. Wilentz,
 Mr. Lanigan,
 Mr. Hauck,
 Mr. Peacock,
 Mr. Large,
  For the State
 Mr. Reilly,
 Mr. Fisher,
 Mr. Pope,
 Mr. Rosecrans,
  For the Defendant.

   The Court: Is the Defendant in court?
   Mr. Reilly: Not yet, your Honor.
The Court: Let the Sheriff bring him in. The Clerk may poll the jury.

(The jury is polled and all jurors answer present.)
(The Defendant is brought in.)

The Court: I very much regret that I have to speak of a matter this morning which relates to the matter of taking photographs here while the Court is in session. I thought that that was perfectly understood between the Court and photographers and everybody else, that no photographs were to be taken here while the Court is in session. Apparently it was not understood, or, if understood, the order was disobeyed. I say apparently, because some things have been brought to my attention which lead me to think that there were some photographs taken here yesterday while the Court was in session.
 Now, that must not occur again. If it does occur again, the Court will be obliged to take such measures as the Court deems expedient in the matter. I hope I will not have to refer to that subject matter again.

Mr. Walter Mullins: May it please your Honor, I represent five newsreels, and the idea is this: that there has absolutely been no photographs taken during the trial –
The Court: By you.
Mr. Mullins: By any of the companies.
Mr. Wilentz: Just a minute, if your Honor please. May I just suggest that if the gentleman has anything to say to the Court, he might say it to the Court in Chambers.
The Court: Yes, it would be better: The statement made by the Court is a perfectly simple statement and ought to convey all the information that any interested party desires and, for the moment, I do not feel like listening to any explanation. You may be seated.

The Court: If counsel are ready they may proceed. Colonel Lindbergh will take the stand.

Charles A. Lindbergh, resumed.

Direct examination by Mr. Wilentz: (continued)

 Q. Now, Colonel, you were telling us about the second note that you received; and getting away from that for the moment and returning to the home again, you said you went into the room, I think on two occasions, after which or between which you went out with your rifle. Now, will you tell us about the condition of the room with reference to whether or not there were any footprints of any kind at all in the room.
 A. There were some prints on the suit case or on top of the suit case which was under the window on the southeast side of the nursery. There was also at least one print on the floor beneath that window and inside of the suit case which was on a small chest and there was also, according to my best recollection, a print on the window sill itself.
 Q. What do you mean by a print, Colonel?
 A. A deposit of yellow clay, I will call it.
 Q. Sort of a mud?
 A. Well, mud carries more of the distinction of blackness, to me; it was a yellowish red clay such as outside the house beneath that window.
 Q. I see.
 A. The length and approximately the breadth of a man's foot. The prints were not as distinct as to be able to see the complete outline of a foot, but they were very definitely made by a man's foot.
 Q. So that, as I understand it then, there were these – we will call them prints from the window sill in the direction of the crib, towards the crib?
 A. There was at least one between the window sill, at least one between the chest below the window sill and the crib, in addition to the others.
 Q. When you talk about the chest, I show you Exhibit S-11 and ask you whether or not the chest which appears on that exhibit right immediately adjoining the window is the chest that you refer to?
 A. It is.
 Q. Now as I recall it, Colonel, you stated, too, that some time during the evening through the flashlight of one of the Hopewell officers used, you could see the ladder used in the distance?
 A. Yes.
 Q. Eventually that ladder was brought into your home, was it not, that evening?
 A. Yes, it was. Whether it was before midnight on that evening or not I am not sure, but during that night it was brought in.
 Q. And will you tell us whether or not that ladder was strange to your premises or whether it was a ladder that had been there before.
 A. It was a ladder I had never seen before.
 Q. It was not a part of your household or estate?
 A. It was not.
 Q. Was there also a chisel near the ladder?
 A. That was reported to me.
 Q. Was there a chisel brought into the house?
 A. There was.
 Q. Did you see that chisel?
 A. I did.
 Q. Was that chisel a part of the household effects?
 A. No, it was not.
 Q. Strange to the house?
 A. Yes.
 Q. In addition to the ladder, was there also a dowel pin there?
 A. There was a dowel pin. I don't recall seeing the dowel pin at the time I looked at the ladder.
 Q. Did you see it eventually that evening or early the next morning in your home?
 A. Yes.
 Q. And was that dowel pin a part of the household effects prior to this night?
 A. It was not.
 Q. Strange to you, was it?
 A. Yes.
 Q. Then getting back to the notes: after you had received your second note, Colonel, did you directly by mail receive any further notes?
 A. Not directly.
 Q. I show you these papers and ask you whether you did receive them in some other way.
 A. This is the envelope and the notes which I received next through Colonel Breckenridge. They were sent to Colonel Beckenridge's Office in New York.

(Envelope was marked State Exhibit S-21 and received in evidence. The note was received in evidence and marked State Exhibit S-22; the other one was received in evidence and marked State Exhibit S-23.)
   Mr. Wilentz: Are they marked, Mr. Stenographer?
   The Stenographer: Yes, sir.

 Q. Following that, did you receive a telephone call from a gentleman by the name of Dr. Condon?
 A. Yes,- I did not receive the call myself.
 Q. Well, eventually, did you meet Dr. Condon?
 A. Yes.
 Q. At your home?
 A. Yes.
 Q. Do you happen to recall the date?
 A. I believe it was on the evening of March 9th or the early morning, that is after midnight, the early morning of March 10th, to the best of my recollection at this time.
 Q. And through him did you receive these notes that night or the night that you refer to as being the first night that you met him (showing two papers to the witness)?
 A. Yes. Dr. Condon brought these notes to our home at Hopewell that evening. This coloring has been put on.
 Q. The coloring on the envelope has been put on –
 A. Since.
 Q. Since that time.

{Items are entered and marked in evidence as State's Exhibits S-24, S-25 and S-26.}

 Q. And after you saw these notes, just marked for identification, which includes the envelope, having seen them, did you authorize Dr. Condon to continue such negotiations as he was making?
 A. Yes, I did.
 Q. And following that was there exhibited to you by Dr. Condon or somebody for him this note (showing a paper to the witness)?'
 A. Yes.

   {Note entered as State's Exhibit S-27.}

 Q. Following that was this paper exhibited to you?
 A. You mean next in sequence?
 Q. Well, at any time during the negotiations was it?
 A. It was.

   {This note is marked S-28}

 Q. Also, Colonel, was this paper exhibited to you sometime during the negotiations?
 A. Yes, it was.

   {This note is marked S-29}

 Q. Colonel, I show you an envelope – which I will ask the stenographer first please to mark, so that we may refer to it.

   {Envelope marked as S-30}

 Q. I will ask you where it was that you were when you first saw this, referring to S-30 for identification.
 A. This is part of a piece of wrapping paper. I was in Dr. Condon's residence.
 Q. When it was delivered?
 A. No, when I first saw this.
 Q. Do you recall by whom it was presented to you?
 A. It was a part of a package, part of the wrapping of a package which Dr. Condon told me he had and which – well, shall I describe it?
 Q. What was in the package when you got it?
 A. It contained the baby's sleeping suit.
 Q. The sleeping suit which was exhibited in court yesterday, Colonel?
 A. I believe so.
 Q. Exhibit S-15?
 A. May I see it?
 Q. (Exhibit handed to witness.)
 A. Yes.
 Q. And together with that exhibit and envelope was there also a note exhibited with it?
 A. There was.
 Q. Will you take a look please, and see if this is the note.
 A. Yes, this was the note.
 Q. And this note that you refer to as being with Exhibit S-30 and with the sleeping suit coming together is Exhibit S-31.
 I also show you another envelope addressed to Mr. John Condon, dated March 19th and a note with it and ask whether or not that was eventually presented to you?
 A. Yes. This was one of the notes.

   {Marked S-32. The envelope was marked S-33.}

 Q. Then again was there this note presented to you in the course of the negotiations?
 A. Yes.

{Additional notes and envelopes are entered in evidence and marked, S-34, S-35, S-36, S-38}

 Q. And in the course of the negotiations and somewhere in April, either the 1st or 2nd of April, was there exhibited to you this envelope addressed to Dr. John Condon, being marked Exhibit S-36 for identification containing this note marked S-37?
 A. This was shown to me very shortly before the payment of the money in St. Raymond's Cemetery.
 Q. Colonel, I show you S-38 and ask you to look at it and tell us where you were when you saw that note?
 A. I was in Dr. Condon's home in the Bronx.
 Q. Do you remember the day?'
 A. That was on April 2nd, 1932.
 Q. And when you were there, did that note arrive?
 A. It did.
 Q. By mail or by messenger?
 A. The door bell rang in the home; Dr. Condon went to the door and returned with this note.
 Q. And you read it together?
 A. We read it at approximately the same time, yes.
 Q. Who else was there at the time?
 A. Colonel Breckenridge was there and I believe Mr. Reich was there.
 Q. Mr. Reich was a friend of Dr. Condon's?
 A. Dr. Condon's.
 Q. And as a result of that note, did you and Dr. Condon depart in an automobile?
 A. Yes, we did.
 Q. And was there anyone else in the automobile?
 A. No.
 Q. Who was driving?
 A. I was.
 Q. This was on the night of April 2nd, 1932?
 A. Yes, that is right.
 Q. And whose car was it?
 A. I was informed that it was Mr. Reich's car.
 Q. But you were driving?
 A. Yes.
 Q. Did you have any money there with you, any sizeable amount?
 A. Yes, we had $70,000.
 Q. And what did you do – in what container was it kept?
 A. It was wrapped in brown paper and placed is a wooden box.
 Q. And you had the box there in the car?
 A. Yes.
 Q. About what time of night was it when you and Dr. Condon left in that automobile?
 A. Approximately half past eight.
 Q. Did you have any police protection or surveillance?
 A. Not as far as I know.
 Q. You had arranged not to have it, so far as you were able?
 A. As far as possible yes.
 Q. And you had proceeded along to what point?
 A. To a point near the intersection of Tremont Avenue and Whittemore Street, I believe it is.
 Q. In the Bronx?
 A. In the Bronx, near to St. Raymond's Cemetery; we parked opposite that florist shop on the opposite side from the cemetery.
 Q. After having parked opposite that florist shop, who got out of the car?
 A. Dr. Condon.
 Q. Did he then proceed directly across the street to the florist shop?
 A. We were on the same side of the street as the florist shop. Dr. Condon got out of the car, walked across the sidewalk, next to the car, and to a table in front and slightly to the side of the walk to the florist shop. Shall I continue?
 Q. Yes. Continue right on.
 A. And obtained another note from underneath that table.
 Q. Did you see him get that note from underneath the table?
 A. I saw him walk to the table and return with the note; I couldn't see, of course, the note under the table. I understand it was under a rock.
 Q. When he came back did he come right back from there?
 A. He did.
 Q. You could see that, could you?
 A. Yes.
 Q. And when he came back, did you recognize this as being the paper that he had then in his possession (handing to witness)?
 A. Yes, it is.

{Note entered for identification as S-39; some objection prevents entry as evidence now}

 Q. After this S-39 was exhibited to you did you still remain in the same place with your car?
 A. Yes, I did.
 Q. How far was that from St. Raymond's Cemetery, diagonally across the street?
 A. I should say it was about two or three hundred feet.
 Q. And what time of night would you say it was, Colonel?
 A. It was in the vicinity of nine o'clock.
 Q. What was the condition of the weather? I mean was it clear?
 A. Oh, yes, the visibility was clear. I don't recall whether it was overcast or not; I don't recall.
 Q. A clear night?
 A. Clear night as far as visibility was concerned.
 Q. And you remained seated in the car?
 A. Yes, I did.
 Q. Alone?
 A. Yes.
 Q. With the $70,000?
 A. Yes.
 Q. And Dr. Condon, then from there, what did he do?
 A. After Dr. Condon returned to the car with the note, we read the note. Then Dr. Condon walked across Whittemore to the corner of the cemetery.
 Q. When you say the corner, I suppose you mean the entrance, the front entrance? Or isn't there an entrance?
 A. I don't believe there is an entrance there as I recall it now.
 Q. At any rate he went to the corner?
 A. Yes.
 Q. And then what happened, Colonel? Proceed with your story.
 A. Dr. Condon, as I say, went to the corner of the cemetery, he stood there for a few moments, then he turned around and started to walk back across Whittemore, which runs next to the cemetery. When he arrived at about the center of Whittemore, I heard very clearly a voice coming from the cemetery, to the best of my belief calling Dr. Condon.
 Q. What were the words?
 A. In a foreign accent, "Hey, Doctor."
 Q. How many times?
 A. I heard that voice once.
 Q. After that, Colonel, what did the doctor do?
 A. Dr. Condon immediately turned, walked back toward the corner of the cemetery where he had been and hurriedly walked down Whittemore Street on the cemetery side.
 Q. Yes, sir. Then, I suppose he was out of your sight?
 A. Yes.
 Q. Did he return soon thereafter?
 A. He returned, I should say, in approximately ten minutes. It was very difficult for me at that time to estimate time.
 Q. I see, and when he had left you originally you still had the money?
 A. Yes.
 Q. All right. When he came back did you give him the money?
 A. I gave him part of the money, $50,000 to be exact.
 Q. You didn't give him the seventy?
 A. No.
 Q. At whose suggestion, as between you and Dr. Condon, was the $20,000 omitted?
 A. At Dr. Condon's.
 Q. He said all he needed was the fifty?
 A. Yes.
 Q. And so, who took the $20,000 out of the box?
 A. I did.
 Q. And you gave him then the box with the $50,000?
 A. With the fifty.
 Q. Will you please describe as best you can the box in which this money was contained?
 A. It was a wooden box, hinged at the back with one or two clasps in front, of metal, giving the outside appearance of brass. The box was oblong in shape, not quite large enough in every dimension to hold the money which was put in, and it was slightly cracked, due to forcing the $50,000 into the box.
 Q. Fifty or the seventy?
 A. Well, it was cracked, really, putting the fifty in, because that was in a different package than the additional twenty.
 Q. I see.
 A. The entire seventy was in there originally.
 Q. And what were the dimensions, as best you can remember, of the box?
 A. Why, it was according, it was made according to the dimensions given in one of the notes – I do not recall the exact dimensions. It was about the width, just slightly more, than the width of a bill. It was, I should say, twelve or fourteen inches long, maybe sixteen, and probably seven, or eight, or nine inches in height.
 Q. And what were the denominations of the bills that remained and the denominations of the bills that were taken out?
 A. The bills left in the box were of twenty dollar, ten dollar and five dollar denominations. The ones that were taken out were of fifty.
 Q. Fifty dollar?
 A. Fifty dollar, yes.
 Q. Then, of course, the Doctor left with the money, did he not?
 A. He did.
 Q. And how soon did he return?
 A. I should say again in from ten to fifteen minutes.
 Q. And when he returned did he deliver to you this note?
 A. Yes, he did.

   {Note entered for identification as S-40}

 Q. Of course, when he returned with that note he did not return with the money?
 A. He did not.
 Q. Then I take it you went back to where: The Bronx?
 A. From there we started back toward Dr. Condon's home.
 Q. By the way, he didn't have the box either, did he, if you noticed?
 A. No.
 Q. You say you started toward Dr. Condon's home?
 A. Yes.
 Q. All right, will you proceed, Colonel.
 A. Before arriving there we stopped long enough to read the note which you have just shown me. Then after arriving at his home, as I recall, I made arrangements to obtain a plane to fly over the area designated in the note. And I left Bridgeport about daybreak.
 Q. Bridgeport, Connecticut?
 A. Yes, about daybreak the following morning.
 Q. What time did you leave for Bridgeport from New York and the Bronx, as nearly as you can remember, and how did you go there?
 A. We went by car.
 Q. And who went along?
 A. As I recall now, we did not leave directly from Dr. Condon's house but stopped in New York City on the way.
 Q. From New York?
 A. Colonel Breckinridge went and Mr. Irey.
 Q. Who is Mr. Irey?
 A. He is chief of the Internal Revenue Department at Washington.
 Q. A United States Government employee?
 A. Yes.
 Q. And who else?
 A. Dr. Condon and myself.
 Q. At any rate, next morning about what time did you take off in your plane?
 A. We left shortly after daybreak in an amphibian from Bridgeport.
 Q. How long were you in the air in your plane?
 A. I believe several hours; I haven't the exact time, but we flew up over the area described in the note, we landed up there and spent a considerable time looking over the sea harbors in that vicinity.
 Q. What was the purpose of your mission in the plane?
 A. We were looking for the boat described in the note which you just showed me, and to see if we could find any location of my son.
 Q. And after approximately two hours –
 A. We were gone, I believe, longer than that, because we landed there, as I recall now, we did not return until after noon.
 Q. Did you pilot the plane yourself?
 A. I did.
 Q. And during those hours you searched the waters in that vicinity for the boat that you hoped had your son on it?
 A. That is correct.
 Q. Your search, of course, was in vain that time?
 A. It was.
 Q. You returned then where?
 A. I believe we returned to a field, a land field near Hempstead, Long Island, called the Aviation Country Club.
 Q. Did you make another effort in a plane to locate the boat that was supposed to be the one that you were looking for?
 A. I did later.
 Q. When: the same day?
 A. No. It was a day or two forward.
 Q. I see. And who went up with you that time?
 A. At the moment, I don't recall who was in that plane.
 Q. Who piloted that plane?
 A. I did.
 Q. How long were you up on that occasion?
 A. I believe for several hours again.
 Q. And again the search was in vain?
 A. Yes.
 Q. Then you returned, and where did you go?
 A. On that occasion I landed at Teterboro Airport in New Jersey.
 Q. And from there?
 A. From there, as I recall, I drove to my home in Hopewell.
 Q. And that was some time in April?
 A. That was in April, during the early part.
 Q. On the night of April the 2nd, 1932, when you were in the vicinity of St. Raymond's Cemetery and prior to delivering the money to Dr. Condon and you heard a voice hollering, "Hey Doctor," in some foreign voice, I think, as you referred to it – since that time have you heard the same voice?
 A. Yes, I have.
 Q. Whose voice was it, Colonel, that you heard in the vicinity of St. Raymond's Cemetery that night, saying "Hey, Doctor"?
 A. That was Hauptmann's voice.
 Q. You heard it again the second time where?
 A. At District Attorney Foley's office in New York, in the Bronx.
 Q. Now, Colonel, this money that was made up, the $50,000, I suppose you had ordered that from some bank?
 A. Yes.
 Q. Do you know whether or not the serial numbers of those bills were taken down by anybody?
 A. I requested that that be done, and I was informed that it was done.
 Q. I see. Now, coming back again to Hopewell, after April 2nd, of course, Colonel Breckinridge, your adviser and friend, remained at Dr. Condon's home?
 A. He was at Dr. Condon's home on several occasions after that and I believe quite regularly for some time after April 2nd.
 Q. And were you still awaiting word of the whereabouts of your son?
 A. Yes.
 Q. And finally on May 12, 1932, were you called back to Hopewell?
 A. Yes, I was.
 Q. When did you get to Hopewell?
 A. I believe it was after midnight that night, but during the night of May 12th to May 13th.

Mr. Wilentz: Colonel, if you want a glass of water or something, don't hesitate to ask, please; and I would appreciate it of the Sheriff got the prosecution one of those nice tumblers or glasses.
Mr. Fisher: I had to provide this one for myself, Mr. Wilentz.
The Court: Mr. Crier, won't you get the Attorney General what he wishes?
Court Crier Hann: Yes.

 Q. Now Colonel, on that night, somewhere around midnight, you say you returned to Hopewell; and did you visit a morgue in Trenton?
 A. On the following day I did.
 Q. By the way, in March, 1932, when was the last time you saw Charles A. Lindbergh, Jr.?
 A. On the Sunday evening preceding the 1st of March. That would be in February, 1932.
 Q. And from that time on, did you ever see that child alive again?
 A. I did not.
 Q. Did you see the child at all again?
 A. I saw the child's body.
 Q. When?
 A. On the 13th of May, 1932.
 Q. You saw that body in a morgue at Trenton?
 A. Yes.
 Q. And it was your child?
 A. It was.
 Q. And you ordered the body cremated, as I understand it?
 A. Yes.
 Q. And had the ashes sent to you?
 A. Yes.
 Q. They were in your custody?
 A. They were.
 Q. So that you did not get the money back and did not get your child?
 A. I did not.
 Q. By the way, the child was about twenty months of age at the time?
 A. Yes.
 Q. A healthy child?
 A. Yes, entirely.
 Q. Normal?
 A. Yes – had a slight cold at the time of March 1st – perfectly normal.
 Q. Except for a little cold and except for the fact that one of the toes overlapped the other or so the child was perfectly normal?
 A. Perfectly normal.
 Q. Blond hair?
 A. Yes.
 Q. Curly headed?
 A. Yes.
 Q. Did it talk?
 A. Beginning to talk, yes, a number of words.
 Q. Did it have a name for you and for Mrs. Lindbergh?
 A. Yes.
 Q. What was he, a vivacious child, an active child that ran around?
 A. Yes, I should say active, very active.
 Q. Very active. And I take it, of course, Colonel, that the picture which Mrs. Lindbergh presented here yesterday, S-6, is the picture of Charles Lindbergh, Junior, at the time?
 A. Yes, that is correct.

Mr. Wilentz: Except for the fact that I want to exhibit to the Colonel the ladder when it comes in, the ladder and the chisel, you may take the witness.

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